"Foursome" (alternate shot) competitive experience?

[Tim Bert]

I've always TRIED to get this included in The King's Putter, and a couple times we actually did do it (or a modified version of it - Chapman).  I find it fun.  Sadly most Americans do want to play out their own ball and feel gipped if they cannot.  It's understandable playing a course for the first and perhaps only time.

TH

It's strange - when I'm playing my own ball I am very fixated on score, even when I'm playing in a match (the standard American if you will.)  I chalk it up to my numbers and statistics background - I just can't get past the score.

BUT... I actually prefer the opportunity to not be fixated on score, which is why I find alternate shot so enjoyable.  It forces me to not be concerned with a score and just enjoy the company and the competition.  Alternate shot is the only way I've found to completely detatch myself from the number I write down, and I love it.

[Bart Bradley]

Tom:

Both of my clubs play alternate shot for the parent-child championship...Talk about a new form of torture...perhaps they should have had the "enemy combatants" try it.

Please picture taking your lovely and extremely excited 7 year old son to such a tournament...

Ok, first tee, you stripe one down the middle of the fairway...your feeling good....he proceeds to cold shank the ball sideways into the trees...you find it, chip out and pray for a whiff only to get the full foozle into the fairway bunker...you extract and again pray for little to no contact....mercifully, you eventually reach the green where you lag your putt down to 2 feet...your son, in his excitement, blasts the putt 15 feet past the hole...you lag, he blasts, and so on...Thankfully, these tournaments were generally only 9 holes..(and my son, now 14 can play!)

but yeah, I know about alternate shot...in such cases, it leads to a "calculator and scorecard" mentality  ...very interesting topic.

Bart

Interesting you describe this as torture, Bart.  I've done the same format twice with my son (at age 6 and age 7) and I have to say it was the most pressure I have ever felt playing this game... and I've played competitively off and on for 30+ years.... but also the most FUN.  I absolutely loved it.  Getting to team up with my son at something was just an absolute blast.  And Tiger Woods neither of us was/is.... it went pretty much as you described.  We each just did contribute a hero shot or two, which made the whole thing worthwhile.  He's now 10 and I hope it works into the sports schedule for us to do this again next summer.

As for other foursome play, I have never played in any "official" event (other than those two with my son) but I have always made it a point to include it in outings I've arranged... so I have played quite a bit of it over the years.  I really enjoy it.  There's something about the change to a team mentality that I really like, golf being so individual damn near all the time.

I've always TRIED to get this included in The King's Putter, and a couple times we actually did do it (or a modified version of it - Chapman).  I find it fun.  Sadly most Americans do want to play out their own ball and feel gipped if they cannot.  It's understandable playing a course for the first and perhaps only time.

TH

Tom:

Torture was only meant tongue and cheek...it was fun and hilarious and excruciating all at the same time (you want to make everything for your kid...).  I wouldn't have missed any of those tournaments ...playing with my son is/was/always will be a true treat!

Bart

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I think it was Harry Bradshaw who told the story of playing in a mixed foursome partnering the wife of a wealthy leading politician.
'We came to the first green and I chipped and she putted, and I chipped and she putted, and I chipped and she putted....'

[Steve_ Shaffer]

My wife and I won the "Divorce Open"- excuse me, Couples Championship, net division, at my former club playing the Chapman or Pinehurst variation of foursomes:

"This 2-person team competition format is named after Dick Chapman, a great amateur golfer who played The Masters 17 consecutive years. He "invented" the game at Pinehurst Resort, hence it is alternately called Chapman or Pinehurst. And, for good measure, it is less frequently referred to as American Foursomes.
In the Chapman System, both players on a side tee off, then they switch balls. Player A plays Player B's drive, and vice-versa. Each player hits his or her second shot. They then select the best of the second shots, and from that point until the ball is holed they play only one ball in an alternate shot format."

The club also had a true foursomes for 9 holes in a 27 hole match play Ryder Cup style event.

I've never played true foursomes in a casual round.

[Mark Chaplin]

Tom Birkert - You are slightly modest, your open foursomes event must be the premier foursomes event certainly in Europe if not the world??

[Sean_A]

Tom Birkert - You are slightly modest, your open foursomes event must be the premier foursomes event certainly in Europe if not the world??

Chappers

It is quite difficult to get into these days.  I played in the event many years ago (and I still don't think there is a handicap requirement though I think we were forced to lay off scratch), but now there are so many apps that the club has a unique way of choosing who gets in - by merit (so I am told).  I applied a few times in recent years and didn't get a sniff.  They don't need any mid-cappers to make up the numbers these days or perhaps I was lucky all those years ago!!!

Ciao

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

San Gabriel CC in So. Calif. hosts the Cravens Cup, which I believe is the longest running tournament in California established in 1924 (although I was told by a member that it was started much earlier at the NLE Pasadena CC and then eventually moved over to SGCC).  It's alternate shot, with an interesting finish that I can't quite articulate... it's like a derby finish where all flight winners (except the championship flight which actually plays for the Cup), go off together until the last team is standing.  There was an article I was trying to find on Golf World or Golf Week, that talks about the event.

I have a couple friends who come in from Phila. to play in it said it was a great event, and a lot fun playing this format.

[Tom Huckaby]

Seems to me most member-guests have some sort of alternate shot or Chapman element to them, don't they?  I think each that I have played it has.  And they are always a lot of fun.

BTW Wayne, good mention of San Gabriel, a hidden gem if there ever was one.  I have a friend who's a member there... played it a few times.  Good old-time stuff.

TH

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Seems to me most member-guests have some sort of alternate shot or Chapman element to them, don't they?  I think each that I have played it has.  And they are always a lot of fun.

BTW Wayne, good mention of San Gabriel, a hidden gem if there ever was one.  I have a friend who's a member there... played it a few times.  Good old-time stuff.

TH

I really enjoyed SGCC as well.  It's unfortunate that barranca (I guess that's what it is) has been concreted over... it must've been a very interesting hazard when it was natural (I imagine it would've been live some of the pics of Wilshire's old barranca).  There are some really good holes there, especially the ones that have been renovated recently (#1 and 18), and all-and-all definitely a hidden gem.

[Carl Nichols]

Tom H:
I've never played foursomes in a member-guest -- it's always been four-ball (my experience is limited to the U.S.)

[Peter Nomm]

Tom - I run several variations of "alternate shot" at my club such as straight alternate, select-drive alternate, or pinehurst.  It is a refreshing change from the regular best ball games so many play.  Pace of play is great and my members enjoy the events.

No other place in golf does it truly force the player to play golf "one shot at a time" like we always hear about.  You have absolutely no thought about anything but the shot at hand. 

It is a great way to measure the state of your game!

[Dan Moore]

I have incorporated foursomes play into an annual 36 hole match I organize with some of my golfing friends.  I don't think any of us played foursomes before this event, but it has been some of the most enjoyable golf we have played.  It seems to work particulary well after a few refreshments between the morning fourball and afternoon foursomes rounds.   

[David Ober]

I play in the SCGA Foursomes every year. My partner and I finished a respectable 3rd last year at Rancho San Marcos Golf Course in Santa Barbara.

I absolutely love the format, and believe it to be the most pressure-packed of all golf formats.

[JohnV]

The West Penn GA has two foursomes events every year.  Both are 36 hole events in one day.  They require that the person who hits tee shots on the odd holes in the morning hits tee shots on the even holes in the afternoon.  They were great.  One of them was called the Century where the combined ages of the two players had to be 100 or greater.  It was cool that 65 year old player could find someone 35 and play with them.  I played in the Century Foursomes twice.  Great fun.

Craig, you mentioned that carts can be a problem.  They aren't if the teams split up and the two players who tee off on the first hole ride together while the others ride together.

D_Malley,  Your allocation of handicaps is interesting.  It should be the average of the two players handicaps according the USGA Handicap Guide.  Allocations where one player contributes a higher percentage typically are found in Chapman events.

The NCGA plays their father/son and couples events as Chapmans with a 60-40 handicap.  The WPGA also used it for their father/son and brothers events.

[Philip Gawith]

When the bitterness leaves these fair isles Sean we can have our next round! They certainly need to deal with the trees - and maybe some of the rough too if they want to keep their quick-golf creds intact!

Brent- yes, a dodgy chocolate episode and a big steel deal combined to make that a very, very difficult and workmanlike Sunday, albeit something of a professional high! I very much hope you will give me an opportunity to remedy the omission when you are next in these parts!!

[Lloyd_Cole]

My golf teacher (back when it looked like there was hope for me) Leo Feeney, a wonderful and powerful player was paired with an older lady member in foursomes tournament at our club one year in the mod 1970's. The old 14th was a 90 degree dogleg which big hitters could drive if they took on the OB carry. Leo drove the green, his partner putted the ball into a bunker, Leo blasted out to 3 feet, she missed, Leo holed out. On the next tee Leo said some thing along the lines of 'we really need to do a little better on the next hole - we took five strokes on the last'. 'Yes' said his partner 'and you took three of them.'

[D_Malley]

how are team handicaps calculated for a straight alt shot event?

[Bob Harris]

how are team handicaps calculated for a straight alt shot event?

From the USGA Handicap manual:

(vi) Foursome Stroke Play
In foursome stroke play, two players form a side and the partners play one ball. The partners play alternately from the teeing grounds and alternately during the play of each hole ("The Rules of Golf," 29-1). After handicap allowances are determined, Section 9-3c(iii) must be applied in competitions from different tees, or in competitions between men and women from the same tees.

Allowance: The allowance is 50 percent of the partners' combined Course Handicap. When selected drives are permitted, the allowance is 40 percent. A plus combined Course Handicap side must be added to the gross score to determine the net score.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom H:
I've never played foursomes in a member-guest -- it's always been four-ball (my experience is limited to the U.S.)

Carl, thinking about this more... your experience may be more typical.  I've played more chapmans and a LOT more fourball than foursomes... the latter being a 9-hole throwin from time to time.  My bad.

All these team events are darn fun - I look at it the same as Tim Bert - less fixation on personal score gives a kind of freedom.

TH

[Matt Bosela]

It is extremely unfortunate that alternate shot tournament play isn't as prevalent here as it is overseas.

Here in the Niagara area, we have a regional interclub competition that is based off the Ryder Cup/President's Cup format, with a series of matches involving Foursomes, Better Balls and individual match play.  Again, due to bitching and complaining about the alternate shot format, with people saying "we're not really playing the golf course", it was taken out of the competition in 2008.

I think there is a great stategic element to playing well in an alternate shot format and I think it's a fantastic test for one's game both from a technical and a mental standpoint.