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Andrew Balakshin

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2009, 10:19:31 PM »
haha, you guys are a riot  :D
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 10:21:34 PM by Andrew Balakshin »

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2009, 10:34:36 PM »


Seems to me that this "access" angle and the sense of entitlement of some, is just another one of those divides on this website between those who have access to the great courses in the USA, and those who feel they should have access to the great courses in the USA.

Yes, and it seems to me that some of the "haves" on this website expect their guests to bow at their feet for the privilege of walking through the gates of their sacred golf club

It takes a lot of huevos for the rich to say the poor aren't quite kissing their ass well enough.  WTF is wrong with this world.

I'm disgusted by you Hearst, or whoever you are.....::)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 10:36:13 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2009, 10:46:58 PM »
Michael,
Don't be so hard on the guy, some people just don't know their largesse from a hole in the ground.  :o
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2009, 11:00:55 PM »
Just my two cents as someone who is not a member of an elite club.There should be an absolute required disclosure and ban of anyone asking to play someone elses club.If someone invites you ,great.A person should not be put in the position of being asked.For one thing members are responsible for their guests.You may think the cell phone rule is stupid,but break it and it is your hosts problem long after you are gone.IMO it is rude to ask.I assume that some of the members of historic clubs have to deal with this more than we would expect.A person should not be afraid to say they are a member somewhere for fear of being bugged.Make it an absolute rule and no feelings get hurt.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2009, 12:58:06 AM »
Maybe we all need some sort of dose of Amish or Mennonite fundamentalism when it comes to these deadly sins of things related to 'covetting" opportunities to play at various courses that are deemed somehow great, desirable, elite, or prestigious.  Maybe we all want to play too much.  Maybe we all ought to just be happy to play at all, anywhere.

Could this whole issue be somehow rooted in the advent of lists of "top" courses, and the whole notion of rating and listing courses leads to covetting, in an unhealthy way moralistically?  I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2009, 01:59:09 AM »
RJ, I think I agree.But that covetting thing can be the toughest of the ten.What do we need to be happy?In our society it is usually just a little more.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2009, 05:44:06 AM »
I have been made aware of fueds as a result of this website. "Members" have been lost who belong to some of the worlds top clubs, because people get into arguments over theories and trash the respected views of others.

There maybe some geniusses of the written word lurking about the this site but generally people who are interesting, witty and well spoken in person can come out all wrong in the written word. Causing conflict where none should arise

I've stayed a week with a fellow GCA'er who took time off work so we could play some of the best courses in the Mid-West. I've played BUDA am organising this year's event, hosted numerous GCA'ers at my home club and signed in several of them as members of the club.

Celebrate what we have, make good friendships but remember what you write maynot appear as you mean it..........unless you are an ar£$&%le who IS after conflict and IMO are not welcome here.
Cave Nil Vino

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2009, 05:54:18 AM »
I've only had a chance to meet two GCAers.  One met me for lunch while I was on a work assignment in another city, and proceeded to invite me for a round at his club.  It was incredibly gracious (and his idea, I didn't know he had any affiliations).

James!  I must of made a bad impression or forgot to invite you to my clubs.  (We played together at Outlaw a few years ago).  jaycee

Anthony Gray

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2009, 08:47:40 AM »
I have met and played with Jay, and I have known Tommy for a long time.  I found Jay to be a gentleman, and I know Tommy is one.  I know they have "issues" and I don't think there is a resolution.  I, and a few others who know both, would genuinely like to see a "Chinese Wall" or some other separation that would allow both to participate on GCA.com, as they both have contributions to make.

I don't know what happened at Colonial and feel badly that Tony is po'd enough to go public with this, but things do happen sometimes.  Tony is right, it is really important for those who are guests to err on the side of overcommunication every time they are being hosted somewhere.  It's embarrassing to the host when things are not right on track.

    Forgive me for my brief stay on this site. But Eric Smith and I were talking at the Cracker Barrel in Ootelwah the other day. We were wondering how this thing with Tommy and Jay was going to affect the Buda.

  One question. Do the european guys on this site disagree more gentelmanly than the US guys?

  Is there a differance in golf cultures? Is this one reason why the european teams in the Ryder Cup beat the more talented US teams?

  Anthony


ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2009, 09:01:03 AM »
I once showed up at MPCC in shorts. My host then found a pair of medium size rain pants to fit my 6'6" body. He still  has fun with that one!  ;)

   I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has played MPCC in rain pants. :)
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

John Burzynski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2009, 09:22:50 AM »
Maybe we all need some sort of dose of Amish or Mennonite fundamentalism when it comes to these deadly sins of things related to 'covetting" opportunities to play at various courses that are deemed somehow great, desirable, elite, or prestigious.  Maybe we all want to play too much.  Maybe we all ought to just be happy to play at all, anywhere.

Could this whole issue be somehow rooted in the advent of lists of "top" courses, and the whole notion of rating and listing courses leads to covetting, in an unhealthy way moralistically?  I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.



AMEN

Mark Bourgeois

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2009, 09:30:15 AM »
Anthony

With a very few exceptions, their BUDA side is about as "European" as the Socceroos are "Australian."

(You can interpret that statement to mean two different things, and both would be correct.)

Pestilently yours
Captain Emeritus

Rich Brittingham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2009, 09:42:08 AM »
Just my two cents as someone who is not a member of an elite club.There should be an absolute required disclosure and ban of anyone asking to play someone elses club.If someone invites you ,great.A person should not be put in the position of being asked.For one thing members are responsible for their guests.You may think the cell phone rule is stupid,but break it and it is your hosts problem long after you are gone.IMO it is rude to ask.I assume that some of the members of historic clubs have to deal with this more than we would expect.A person should not be afraid to say they are a member somewhere for fear of being bugged.Make it an absolute rule and no feelings get hurt.

Mike, I echo your sentiments to a "tee".  Anyone in the much maligned DC golf area feel free to contact me anytime for a round.  We have an inordinate number of overpriced CC's for a day of which I spend waay to much time an money.  Would love to meet any and all of you.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2009, 09:51:48 AM »
[Do the european guys on this site disagree more gentelmanly than the US guys?
Of course we do because we are gentlemen and do everything in a more gentlemanly fashion than any of the colonials on this site. (Emoticon omitted - insert one of your choice)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 12:15:14 PM by Mark Pearce »
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Anthony Gray

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2009, 10:04:43 AM »
Anthony

With a very few exceptions, their BUDA side is about as "European" as the Socceroos are "Australian."

(You can interpret that statement to mean two different things, and both would be correct.)

Pestilently yours
Captain Emeritus

  Mark,

  You are going to have to help me with this one. Please explain. I'm not the best when it comes to the advanced search so I am unclear on the Buda history.

  Captian Emeritus. For the US or the UK? For your sake you do not want me on your team.



   Thanks

  Anthony


Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2009, 10:27:44 AM »
While my experience is certainly limited as a newcomer to this board, my experience with playing with members has only been extraordinarily positive -- from Saturday's excursion around the Reverse Jans to last week's visit to San Antonio to play with Wyatt Halliday at Oak Hills (Wyatt was kind enough to contact me when he saw that I was going to be in town for the Alamo Bowl), to Mr. Chaplin's world tour event at Black Sheep.  In my view, the chance to have discussions with, sometimes meet, and perhaps play with people who love the game is the principle reason to be on this board.  The extracurricular battles and backbiting among the personalities is just the spam we have to wade through to get to the good stuff.

John Moore II

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2009, 11:59:34 AM »
I have played golf with a few on this site, and never at any kind of upscale, private club. The only time I asked to come play someones club (well, twice I asked, but on the second it was a different situation and the contact was made through someone else on this site I had personally met) I asked John Kavanaugh if I could come play Victoria National in a joking was on the main board. I was shocked as hell when he said yeah, sure come on. I never took him up on the offer. Its just me, but if I don't know you personally, or can have someone I know contact you directly, I'm just not going to ask to play some high end club.

HamiltonBHearst

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2009, 12:11:01 PM »


Don't worry Dugger/Macwood, next time I am in Oregon I will not attempt to use you for access to Sandpines. 


Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2009, 01:23:47 PM »
Folks,

We get one of these threads every once in a while, and I suppose it makes sense for everyone to get this stuff out in the open.  In one of the prior "access" threads, Shelly Solow posted an excellent reply, discussing how many of us meet through the thread and become friends, even if not in person, and want them to come play our golf courses and talk GCA.  Total cold calls can be a bit off, but virtually anyone that takes the time to post on this place must have SOME decent qualities.  ;D  Ran also made a lengthy post about this and other matters some time ago.

Anyways, years ago I issued an open invitation to anyone on GCA to give me a call and come out and play Olympia Fields, and it's been terrific, from playing 36 with Jon Lovito (is he still in London?), joined for the second 18 by Paul Richards and Shivas, who was 3 under on the front until he doubled 8 and shot something like 35-50.  I played 36 with John Cullum, who I was originally chary about having out because I thought he was someone else, and, realizing that he wasn't that guy after our first nine, 'fessed up and told him I almost said I was too busy to play.  The best was probably picking up Dan Taylor in a pouring rainstorm on Michigan Avenue after he had to lug his clubs down something like 19 flights of stairs at the Palmer house when a fire next door stopped the elevators (I think he got some odd looks standing on Michigan Avenue like Robert Redford on 3rd base in the rain in The Natural).  The list goes on (have had great days with Lou Duran and Ed Getka and his brother, and have repaid Ed by blowing him off twice on trips because of work and then kidney stones).  Most on this website have had similar experiences, so let's not close out all the options.

Jeff
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 02:51:14 PM by Jeff Goldman »
That was one hellacious beaver.

Anthony Gray

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2009, 01:55:23 PM »


  As a guest to one of the top 100 around 10 years ago I had a strange experience. A good friend had done business with one of the members and included me in his guest visit. He told me the member was a great guy and they had made money together. So we made the trip.

  We were told to meet him in a resteraunt parking lot. We did and were told to change into our golf shoes because the club did not permit it in the parking lot or bag drop. Shortly into the round the member was upset with his game. If he was out of the hole he would go to the next tee and tee off before the rest of us finished putting. After the round we went straight back to our car at the resteraunt parking lot. Strange day.

  Anthony


TEPaul

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2009, 02:03:04 PM »
JeffG:

That is such a nice post you just made.

But the attitude that surprises me is refected in this remark from above:



"Yes, and it seems to me that some of the "haves" on this website expect their guests to bow at their feet for the privilege of walking through the gates of their sacred golf club.
It takes a lot of huevos for the rich to say the poor aren't quite kissing their ass well enough.  WTF is wrong with this world."


That is just amazing to me and therefore is it any wonder that this access issue on here is on-going? Take a Wayne Morrison of Merion or a Pat Mucci of GCGC or even someone from Pine Valley who agrees to host someone for golf at his club who he's never met-----does this mean he has to be out there wondering whether that guest is thinking he's being made to bow at their feet for the privelege of walking through the gates of their sacred club?

To me this attitude of "haves" vs "havenots" reflected in those remarks above has just got to go or this access thing will always be an on-going problem on here!


Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2009, 02:21:47 PM »
Tom - AMEN! 

(I don't usually to post the "you're right" type things, but you hit the nail on the head - perfectly)

John Moore II

Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2009, 03:43:50 PM »
I think the whole key is knowing what to do in certain situations. I mean, if you are going to play Merion, CPC, Monterey, or wherever, ask the person who is hosting you what the standards are for the club. Personally, I am fairly ok when it comes to dress, I wear pants almost everywhere I play especially if I called the pro at the club to arrange the time. But many people, especially in summer may not wear pants. That would be pretty embarassing for the host if his guest showed up in shorts. Same goes if you intend to have lunch. Some upscale clubs require you to wear a sport jacket (and in some cases a tie) to eat in the dining room or use clubhouse facilities. Same goes, it would be rather embarassing for the host if you or I were to show up ready to eat lunch without a jacket and tie if that was required.

Just communicate with the person who is hosting you at his or her club. Ask what the dress code is. Ask about money arrangements (assuming the host doesn't cover everything, many private clubs don't take cash; I learned that one in an interesting way) Ask about their tipping policy. I can go on. But if we just communicate with our hosts, none of this 'bow at the feet' stuff has to happen. Now yeah, if we roll up wearing shorts, a mock neck shirt and talking on the cell phone at PV or CPC, etc. then yeah, we might have to 'bow' a bit since the host is going to have to clean up this garbage for the next 10 years. But as long as everyone knows what is expected, everything should be cool.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2009, 04:01:46 PM »
I have met and played with Jay, and I have known Tommy for a long time.  I found Jay to be a gentleman, and I know Tommy is one.  I know they have "issues" and I don't think there is a resolution.  I, and a few others who know both, would genuinely like to see a "Chinese Wall" or some other separation that would allow both to participate on GCA.com, as they both have contributions to make.


    Forgive me for my brief stay on this site. But Eric Smith and I were talking at the Cracker Barrel in Ootelwah the other day. We were wondering how this thing with Tommy and Jay was going to affect the Buda.


I hope both these guys attend because I'd like to meet them.  Their attendance will benefit both them and the Buda (sic). 

In a big group hopefully  they'll see the other party talking and laughing with people they know and respect, and they'll realise that the spirit of playing golf together is a positive force and they have more in comon than they know.  It's a funny thing but I've made two visits to Deal with GCA members and in such situations one topic of conversation that tends to crop up is "Who have you met?" Normally this opens a flood of comments about some of the great guys that they know.  On my first visit Tommy's name was thrown into the pot and this last one Jay's.

I hope to be in a fourball with them and I'll get to buy my group Kummel, at the half way hut.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 04:05:22 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCAer's as guests
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2009, 04:11:32 PM »
But many people, especially in summer may not wear pants.

Talk about an access issue !
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini