[Phil McDade]

Chris:

From my perch here in Madison WI, I get to see a lot of Big Ten/11 football, and have done so for the past two decades. This was one of the worst seasons for quality football in the Big 10 that I can recall. Michigan was embarrassing, Penn St. and Ohio St. are decent teams, but a clear notch or two below the top half-dozen teams in the country, Michigan St. is really mediocre, Iowa isn't much better, and Minnesota and Wisconsin were undeserving of bowl bids. Northwestern had a nice season, but it barely scored more points than it gave up this year in Big 10 play. Illinois was really disappointing as well.

I think there are several factors -- coaching turnover (Michigan, Wisconsin), lack of talent at key positions (notably quarterback), and a lack of innovation in tune with today's game. And just to get some blood boiling, admissions standards may have something to do with it, too.

Phil,

I too am perched in the Midwest and get to see a lot of Big 10 football.  Love the idea that they came up with a confernce sports network.  However, I must disagree from a talent standpoint at least at OSU, PSU and Iowa (we disagree on them being just mediocre - they manhandles South Carolina at the line of scrimage on both sides of the ball and lost several close games this year).  
Chris

Chris:

You're kidding about Iowa, right? After beating up on the likes of Maine and Fla. International (!!), they barely overcame a truly bad Iowa St. team 17-5, lost to a mediocre Pitt team, lost to Northwestern, lost to Michigan St., lost to Illinois, lost to Penn St., barely edged a bad Purdue team by five points, and whupped two bowl pretenders (Wisc. and MN), then beat a medicore S. Carolina team that was starting the SEC's latest parolee at QB. Yes, some of the games they lost were close, but they LOST them.

That's a record to point to as an indication of a league's strength?

[Kyle Harris]

Chris:

From my perch here in Madison WI, I get to see a lot of Big Ten/11 football, and have done so for the past two decades. This was one of the worst seasons for quality football in the Big 10 that I can recall. Michigan was embarrassing, Penn St. and Ohio St. are decent teams, but a clear notch or two below the top half-dozen teams in the country, Michigan St. is really mediocre, Iowa isn't much better, and Minnesota and Wisconsin were undeserving of bowl bids. Northwestern had a nice season, but it barely scored more points than it gave up this year in Big 10 play. Illinois was really disappointing as well.

I think there are several factors -- coaching turnover (Michigan, Wisconsin), lack of talent at key positions (notably quarterback), and a lack of innovation in tune with today's game. And just to get some blood boiling, admissions standards may have something to do with it, too.

Phil,

I too am perched in the Midwest and get to see a lot of Big 10 football.  Love the idea that they came up with a confernce sports network.  However, I must disagree from a talent standpoint at least at OSU, PSU and Iowa (we disagree on them being just mediocre - they manhandles South Carolina at the line of scrimage on both sides of the ball and lost several close games this year).  
Chris

Chris:

You're kidding about Iowa, right? After beating up on the likes of Maine and Fla. International (!!), they barely overcame a truly bad Iowa St. team 17-5, lost to a mediocre Pitt team, lost to Northwestern, lost to Michigan St., lost to Illinois, lost to Penn St., barely edged a bad Purdue team by five points, and whupped two bowl pretenders (Wisc. and MN), then beat a medicore S. Carolina team that was starting the SEC's latest parolee at QB. Yes, some of the games they lost were close, but they LOST them.

That's a record to point to as an indication of a league's strength?

Jesus Phil,

I wished I lived in a world where Iowa LOST to Penn State in 2008.

Might want to check that one out.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris:

From my perch here in Madison WI, I get to see a lot of Big Ten/11 football, and have done so for the past two decades. This was one of the worst seasons for quality football in the Big 10 that I can recall. Michigan was embarrassing, Penn St. and Ohio St. are decent teams, but a clear notch or two below the top half-dozen teams in the country, Michigan St. is really mediocre, Iowa isn't much better, and Minnesota and Wisconsin were undeserving of bowl bids. Northwestern had a nice season, but it barely scored more points than it gave up this year in Big 10 play. Illinois was really disappointing as well.

I think there are several factors -- coaching turnover (Michigan, Wisconsin), lack of talent at key positions (notably quarterback), and a lack of innovation in tune with today's game. And just to get some blood boiling, admissions standards may have something to do with it, too.

Phil,

I too am perched in the Midwest and get to see a lot of Big 10 football.  Love the idea that they came up with a confernce sports network.  However, I must disagree from a talent standpoint at least at OSU, PSU and Iowa (we disagree on them being just mediocre - they manhandles South Carolina at the line of scrimage on both sides of the ball and lost several close games this year).  
Chris

Chris:

You're kidding about Iowa, right? After beating up on the likes of Maine and Fla. International (!!), they barely overcame a truly bad Iowa St. team 17-5, lost to a mediocre Pitt team, lost to Northwestern, lost to Michigan St., lost to Illinois, lost to Penn St., barely edged a bad Purdue team by five points, and whupped two bowl pretenders (Wisc. and MN), then beat a medicore S. Carolina team that was starting the SEC's latest parolee at QB. Yes, some of the games they lost were close, but they LOST them.

That's a record to point to as an indication of a league's strength?

Phil,

First off, Iowa beat Penn State as prior to the Rose Bowl, that was PSU's only loss.  What did Iowa do after the Pittsburgh game that they lost (at Pittsburgh).  They switched to / settled on Richard Stanzi at QB.  That is when they lost two close games to MSU and Northwestern - Stanzi getting comfortable.  Maybe that was missed from your Wisconsin perch.  Yes, they still lost all of those games, but from that point on they were a good team 7-1.  The lost AT Illinois was unacceptable, but I would guess they were looking ahead to Penn State.

Also, I never said the Big Ten was strong, just not as bad as the lazy media will and has made it out to be.

Chris

[Phil McDade]

Chris:

From my perch here in Madison WI, I get to see a lot of Big Ten/11 football, and have done so for the past two decades. This was one of the worst seasons for quality football in the Big 10 that I can recall. Michigan was embarrassing, Penn St. and Ohio St. are decent teams, but a clear notch or two below the top half-dozen teams in the country, Michigan St. is really mediocre, Iowa isn't much better, and Minnesota and Wisconsin were undeserving of bowl bids. Northwestern had a nice season, but it barely scored more points than it gave up this year in Big 10 play. Illinois was really disappointing as well.

I think there are several factors -- coaching turnover (Michigan, Wisconsin), lack of talent at key positions (notably quarterback), and a lack of innovation in tune with today's game. And just to get some blood boiling, admissions standards may have something to do with it, too.

Phil,

I too am perched in the Midwest and get to see a lot of Big 10 football.  Love the idea that they came up with a confernce sports network.  However, I must disagree from a talent standpoint at least at OSU, PSU and Iowa (we disagree on them being just mediocre - they manhandles South Carolina at the line of scrimage on both sides of the ball and lost several close games this year).  
Chris

Chris:

You're kidding about Iowa, right? After beating up on the likes of Maine and Fla. International (!!), they barely overcame a truly bad Iowa St. team 17-5, lost to a mediocre Pitt team, lost to Northwestern, lost to Michigan St., lost to Illinois, lost to Penn St., barely edged a bad Purdue team by five points, and whupped two bowl pretenders (Wisc. and MN), then beat a medicore S. Carolina team that was starting the SEC's latest parolee at QB. Yes, some of the games they lost were close, but they LOST them.

That's a record to point to as an indication of a league's strength?

Jesus Phil,

I wished I lived in a world where Iowa LOST to Penn State in 2008.

Might want to check that one out.

Ooops -- I stand corrected. Iowa is still a mediocre football team. And the league's best two teams were beat by USC by nearly 50 points combined......

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris:

From my perch here in Madison WI, I get to see a lot of Big Ten/11 football, and have done so for the past two decades. This was one of the worst seasons for quality football in the Big 10 that I can recall. Michigan was embarrassing, Penn St. and Ohio St. are decent teams, but a clear notch or two below the top half-dozen teams in the country, Michigan St. is really mediocre, Iowa isn't much better, and Minnesota and Wisconsin were undeserving of bowl bids. Northwestern had a nice season, but it barely scored more points than it gave up this year in Big 10 play. Illinois was really disappointing as well.

I think there are several factors -- coaching turnover (Michigan, Wisconsin), lack of talent at key positions (notably quarterback), and a lack of innovation in tune with today's game. And just to get some blood boiling, admissions standards may have something to do with it, too.

Phil,

I too am perched in the Midwest and get to see a lot of Big 10 football.  Love the idea that they came up with a confernce sports network.  However, I must disagree from a talent standpoint at least at OSU, PSU and Iowa (we disagree on them being just mediocre - they manhandles South Carolina at the line of scrimage on both sides of the ball and lost several close games this year).  
Chris

Chris:

You're kidding about Iowa, right? After beating up on the likes of Maine and Fla. International (!!), they barely overcame a truly bad Iowa St. team 17-5, lost to a mediocre Pitt team, lost to Northwestern, lost to Michigan St., lost to Illinois, lost to Penn St., barely edged a bad Purdue team by five points, and whupped two bowl pretenders (Wisc. and MN), then beat a medicore S. Carolina team that was starting the SEC's latest parolee at QB. Yes, some of the games they lost were close, but they LOST them.

That's a record to point to as an indication of a league's strength?

Jesus Phil,

I wished I lived in a world where Iowa LOST to Penn State in 2008.

Might want to check that one out.

Ooops -- I stand corrected. Iowa is still a mediocre football team. And the league's best two teams were beat by USC by nearly 50 points combined......

And both of those games were at USC.

[Kalen Braley]

Chris,

You miss the point, they weren't even really competitive.

USC goes 2-0 if those games were in PSU and OSU as well. 

[Phil McDade]

Kyle:

Having:

-- Lived in Happy Valley for several years;

-- The good sense to marry someone with a Penn State degree;

-- Said wife's thesis sitting in a library named after Paterno;

-- Personally interviewed JoePa on several occasions, and being struck every time at what a true gentleman he is;

-- Lived a block-and-a-half away from Joe and Sue and her famous lasagna dinners;

-- Learned for the first time to truly appreciate golf architecture on the Penn State White Course; and

-- To put up with a bunch of Wisconsin Cheeseheads who think they invented tailgating...

...I, too, suffered through yesterday.

However, both you and I could probably name a half-dozen better Penn State teams in the past two decades or so better than this year's squad. A good team, but not great -- certainly not one of the top five in the country.

[RJ_Daley]

Well Phil, you certainly put a fine point on that one! 

What defines a "good start to 2009" for you?  Badgers Hockey, looking forward to a winter golf vacation, or keeping it real on GCA.com? 

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,

You miss the point, they weren't even really competitive.

USC goes 2-0 if those games were in PSU and OSU as well. 

Did not miss the point, maybe you missed mine. It was intended to be in jest about the Rose Bowl being a home game for USC.

I agree, the OSU game was a great indication of how that team was with NO Chris Wells or no Terelle Pryor starting at QB.  The only thing that game indicated was that Todd Boeckman can not carry a team without a running game.

[Bill_McBride]

Kyle:

Having:

-- Lived in Happy Valley for several years;

-- The good sense to marry someone with a Penn State degree;

-- Said wife's thesis sitting in a library named after Paterno;

-- Personally interviewed JoePa on several occasions, and being struck every time at what a true gentleman he is;

-- Lived a block-and-a-half away from Joe and Sue and her famous lasagna dinners;

-- Learned for the first time to truly appreciate golf architecture on the Penn State White Course; and

-- To put up with a bunch of Wisconsin Cheeseheads who think they invented tailgating...

...I, too, suffered through yesterday.

However, both you and I could probably name a half-dozen better Penn State teams in the past two decades or so better than this year's squad. A good team, but not great -- certainly not one of the top five in the country.

Phil, they don't "tailgate" at Madison, there's no parking lot!

When I went to a game there, we ate bratwurst and drank beer on a sidewalk outside a rented house full of drunken fraternity boys.  Does that count as "tailgating?"

[Phil McDade]

Kyle:

Having:

-- Lived in Happy Valley for several years;

-- The good sense to marry someone with a Penn State degree;

-- Said wife's thesis sitting in a library named after Paterno;

-- Personally interviewed JoePa on several occasions, and being struck every time at what a true gentleman he is;

-- Lived a block-and-a-half away from Joe and Sue and her famous lasagna dinners;

-- Learned for the first time to truly appreciate golf architecture on the Penn State White Course; and

-- To put up with a bunch of Wisconsin Cheeseheads who think they invented tailgating...

...I, too, suffered through yesterday.

However, both you and I could probably name a half-dozen better Penn State teams in the past two decades or so better than this year's squad. A good team, but not great -- certainly not one of the top five in the country.

Phil, they don't "tailgate" at Madison, there's no parking lot!

When I went to a game there, we ate bratwurst and drank beer on a sidewalk outside a rented house full of drunken fraternity boys.  Does that count as "tailgating?"

In their convoluted way of thinking, yes!

The beer and brats and drunken frat guys are still there...some traditions never die.

(Tailgating, interestingly, is the reason that Milwaukee -- nearly alone among major league baseball cities that have moved their stadia into downtown locations, helping to spur some additional development -- kept their new baseball field in a parking lot two miles from downtown. Former owner/now baseball commish Bud Selig insisted on keeping Miller Park in a parking lot he owned, arguing that Milwaukee fans would want to keep tailgating -- and pocketing the $8-12 a car parking fee, the only way to get remotely close to the ballpark.)

[Tim Pitner]

The Big Ten exposed again?  How does losing to USC, one of the best teams in the country, in what is essentially a home game for USC, expose the Big Ten?  If a bowl game exposed any conferences, I would nominate the Holiday Bowl which, to me, exposed the Pac 10 (minus USC) and the Big 12 as no-defense leagues. 

Right now, the Iowa Hawkeyes are a pretty darned good football team.  They did lose close games to mediocre teams (albeit teams like Mich St, NU and Pitt that won about 9 games and went to bowls), but improved as the year went along.  And they beat a very good Penn St team in a thriller.  It was not a banner year for the Big Ten (mostly because of Michigan's sorry state and an off year for Wisconsin), but this bashing of the Big Ten that is so fashionable now is out of proportion with reality. 

[Ian_L]

Ian,

Mind explaining Oregon State's other out of conference loss?

Early in the season OSU was not nearly as good as they were later on.  See their loss to Stanford in the opener, in which Stanford dominated most of the game.  The OSU < PSU < USC < OSU triangle simply shows the unpredictability of college football. 

[RJ_Daley]

As I understand it (I'm not a big participant) the Packers org., at Lambeau also have cornered the market on tailgaiting to a large extent.  They lost several hundred parking places in the renovation, and I heard they now have a parking license that operates something like a ticketing seat license for season ticket holders.  You have to pay extra to the Packers to get a parking license to pay 20-30 more a game to park in the stadium lot to tailgate.  

I fear muni golf courses will start charging a yearly licensing fee to residents to have the privilege to pay green fees to play, or something like that.  Oh yes, I forgot, Madison sells a resident fee card to pay resident fees...  

Maybe 2009 will be the year of the Joe Sixpack, blowback on all this maximizing profit dollar greedy stuff and they'll vote with their feet.  

BTW, where is Shefchik's book about a Packer org murder mystery?  Maybe 2009 for Rick and his book...

BTW II, all this banter about big-10 big-12 etc, is about the past.  Look to the future lads, its 2009.  Like DiCaprio depicted H. Hughes excentric OC mantra "the way of the future.... way of the fuuutchur... whey of the fuoocher...."

[Tom Yost]

Cincy just whipped VT ,also.

I didn't even realize UC had a football team 

Anyway, as for graduation rates,  I much prefer the felon index as an indicator of football prowess.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike, my angle was to see who started off the NY with a real shebang, like playing at a great course such as Kiawah.  Any chance you went for a quick loop? 

Since I got promoted from Golf Publicist to PR Director, I haven't had much of a chance to play any golf.  Not to worry, though.  I've played The Ocean Course over 300 times so there's not much there I haven't seen...

[Tim_Cronin]

RJ - Thanks. I'm the luckiest guy around, getting paid to go to things like the Winter Classic this year, and the Rose Bowl last year. Classy move by Babcock starting Chelios, too. A fine tribute to a future Hall of Fame lock.
By the time I left Wrigleyville, which was buzzing from 9 a.m. on (and probably still is at the Cubby Bear and Murphy's, and so on, as I write this), the Rose Bowl Game was in the second quarter, and USC was piling up the points. Even the radio announcers called it a rout, in so many words. Everything Penn State did from that point was courtesy of USC spending house money. After the game, Paterno said, "It would take a heck of a football team to beat Southern Cal the way they played today."
But Penn State was not that team. The last Big Ten team to win the Rose Bowl: Wisconsin, on January 1, 2000. For millennial purists, that means the conference is 0 for the third millennium.

Tim, maybe you can tell my why the hell they played the Canadian national anthem before the Winter Classic?

The game was between:

(1)  the Blackhawks of Chicago, which is in Illinois, which is in the United States; and

(2) the Redwings of Detroit, which (although seemingly in the third-world) is, in fact, in Michigan, which is also in the United States.

As RJ said, this was an official NHL Big Deal. There were also fireworks (a Wrigley Field first) and a flyover (way cool; reminded me of the Indy 500). I'm in favor of two anthems before every game, or none at all, when it comes to hockey.

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