[Kyle Henderson]

Thanks Adam.....don't know why I thought private. Shows how badly I need to play. LOL However, I'll leave the lists as is.

Just one more thing......as I'm looking over my lifetime list, my totals:

106 total (I might be missing some on the total as I just started this list a year ago mostly from memory and I know this comes no where close to many on this board, but I was proud to surpass the 100 mark this year)

93 are in CA

76 are in Nor Cal

This would is the perfect thread to satisfy my curiousity if there are others on this board who've played more Nor Cal courses. Not trying to boast at all because I flip through the NCGA Bluebook and I haven't even come close to playing half of what is offered in Nor Cal, but having lived here most my life, I've played quite a few.

Tom H? Adam C? Tim L? Jed? Kyle? Anyone else have lists or feel they've played quite a handful?

I can't wait for retirement (LOL.....boy is that a long way off) to try and start competing with those 1000+ lists that some lay claim to on this board. Those numbers blow my mind......

I have a list at home. I'll dig through and edit this post to reflect more accurate numbers, but I'd guess I've played something like 100 courses in Nor Cal, all but 8.5 of them public.

Private experiences include: MPCC-Shore, Olympic-Lake, Morgan Creek (public the first time I played it), Winchester (now open to public), Castlewood (Valley and Hill), Diablo, Round Hill (front 9 only), Ruby Hill

I've also walked the Olympic-Ocean and MPCC-Dunes during tourney play.

[Tom Huckaby]

it's hard for me to imagine Lake Merced not getting more credit, it is a really good, tough golf course, great membership (it was better, of course, a few years ago when I was there lol), and world class food.

Maybe it's just me but I don't share the love for Pacific Grove-granted, I only played the back 9 once after a morning round at Poppy Hills but it didn't float my boat.  Yes, there are some Scottish-like links holes but is that enough to create this cult-like admiration? If it's a price issue, why wouldn't Pete's Pajaro Valley be a better choice since the conditioning is so far superior and the layout has some pretty good stuff?

I'd say Pajaro Valley is clearly superior - great call.  That being said, I do have some love for PG Muni.  We don't get much true links golf around here... 11-16 there are the closest thing.

And Lake Merced most definitely belongs quite high up any list.

TH

[Jed Peters]

it's hard for me to imagine Lake Merced not getting more credit, it is a really good, tough golf course, great membership (it was better, of course, a few years ago when I was there lol), and world class food.

Mike,

I agree. Lake Merced does deserve more credit--and I need to get out there again to have another go-round to "take in" more of the atmosphere.

[Neal_Meagher]

Regarding Richmond CC, it is a course with some history, dating to the late 1920's but with some repetitiveness to the routing.  The bunkering schemes were never among the most inventive in the Bay Area which, I believe, has meant that it never achieved much notoriety, in spite of the fact that it hosted PGA and LPGA events in the late 40's and early 50's.

But, in late 2002, all of the greens were mysteriously killed which led us to a rapid renovation that winter.  As this was completely unplanned, time and budget were of the essence.  Additionally, due to some ill-advised work done there in the 1980's, their bylaws dictated a membership vote if any serious modifications were to be done to their bunkers or greens.  So, our hands were largely tied to keeping things close to the way they were.

But, after finding a 1946 aerial, we were able to convince them to at least return the bunkers we had to rebuild next to the affected greens to something approaching their original form and fashion.  The contours of the greens were similarly returned to their original form.

Below are several shots of the condition prior to the work, and several b & w images showing the completed work.

[Tom Huckaby]

Thanks JV and thanks, Neal.  I knew something had gone on there at Richmond.  Looks pretty cool to me.

[Patrick Kiser]

A quick note about Poppy Hills.

You know... it's not so much that I dislike it or even think it's a poor course.

I just walked away thinking "this is the best that could be done here?".  No such feelings with Darkhorse.  Which is why I placed it ahead.  Plus I just had more fun at Darkhorse.

This sentiment probably has more to do with having played Poppy Hills after SpyGlass AND Pebble.  I'm thinking my expectations were probably too high to begin with, hence the letdown.  We're just too spoiled I'm afraid.  I'm fast turning into a golf snob... 

I think I need a quick round at Lincoln to set me straight. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

That makes great sense to me.  Darkhorse is pretty darn good, so this is all arguable, and heck it's all opinion and personal preference anyway (as others have said).

I just do tend to like Poppy Hills more than most, I guess.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Regarding Richmond CC, it is a course with some history, dating to the late 1920's but with some repetitiveness to the routing.  The bunkering schemes were never among the most inventive in the Bay Area which, I believe, has meant that it never achieved much notoriety, in spite of the fact that it hosted PGA and LPGA events in the late 40's and early 50's.

But, in late 2002, all of the greens were mysteriously killed which led us to a rapid renovation that winter.  As this was completely unplanned, time and budget were of the essence.  Additionally, due to some ill-advised work done there in the 1980's, their bylaws dictated a membership vote if any serious modifications were to be done to their bunkers or greens.  So, our hands were largely tied to keeping things close to the way they were.

But, after finding a 1946 aerial, we were able to convince them to at least return the bunkers we had to rebuild next to the affected greens to something approaching their original form and fashion.  The contours of the greens were similarly returned to their original form.

Below are several shots of the condition prior to the work, and several b & w images showing the completed work.

I played there in '06, so would love to know if more has been done to the course since then.  

[Kyle Henderson]

While many fine courses have been mentioned in this thread, most of them, particularly the ones I've played, do not quality as great enough to be the creme de la creme. There are a probably some clear cut choices.

So I'll pose this question:

Which of the following courses would you argue does not belong in the Nor Cal Top Ten (which course(s) should replace them and why)?

Cypress Point Club
Pebble Beach
San Francisco Golf Club
Olympic Club- Lake
Monterey Peninsula CC- Shore
Spyglass Hill
Pasatiempo
Cal Club
The Preserve
Mayacama

[Tom Huckaby]

My top 10 would go like this:

Cypress Point Club
Pebble Beach
San Francisco Golf Club
Olympic Club- Lake
Pasatiempo
MPCC-Dunes
Meadow Club
Monterey Peninsula CC- Shore
Spyglass Hill
Cal Club

Why?  Because I think MPCC-Dunes is better than Shore, and Meadow Club is better than the others at the bottom.

But it is all arguable.  Mayacama and The Preserve are darn fine golf courses.

TH

[J_ Crisham]

Tom,  I am curious as to why you give the nod to the Dunes over the Shore at MPCC. The only marginal hole I can think of is the 18th on the Shore. The first couple on the Dunes are good but not nearly as awe inspiring as the start on the Shore course. That opening teeshot is incredible . I felt that the holes just got better and better on the Shore course. I would say the collection of par 3's are as stern a test as I've played. The par 5's were very well designed and provide for some fun 3rd shots. I loved the Dunes course but I don't know if it gets much better than the Shore! Just my preference. I am interested to see why you prefer the Dunes. Wish you well,  Jack

[John Handley]

Tom-

Have you had the opportunity to play the Cal Club since the renovation?

[Scott Stambaugh]

Thanks Adam.....don't know why I thought private. Shows how badly I need to play. LOL However, I'll leave the lists as is.

Just one more thing......as I'm looking over my lifetime list, my totals:

106 total (I might be missing some on the total as I just started this list a year ago mostly from memory and I know this comes no where close to many on this board, but I was proud to surpass the 100 mark this year)

93 are in CA

76 are in Nor Cal

This would is the perfect thread to satisfy my curiousity if there are others on this board who've played more Nor Cal courses. Not trying to boast at all because I flip through the NCGA Bluebook and I haven't even come close to playing half of what is offered in Nor Cal, but having lived here most my life, I've played quite a few.

Tom H? Adam C? Tim L? Jed? Kyle? Anyone else have lists or feel they've played quite a handful?

I can't wait for retirement (LOL.....boy is that a long way off) to try and start competing with those 1000+ lists that some lay claim to on this board. Those numbers blow my mind......

JS

Your post finally got me to go through the Blue Book and see how many courses in NorCal I have played.  I've been gone since 2005, but I spent 13 years there.

I counted 83 courses played and another 11 in the Reno zone.  You're right about one thing- although I've played nearly all of the 'must plays,' there are A LOT of courses I never had the time play.

Since a majority of the courses I played were private, my favorites are similar to everyone else (maybe just in a different order)

-SFGC
-CPC
-MPCC Shore
-Olympic Lake
-Meadow Club
-Tied for 6th- MPCC Dunes, Sonoma GC, Orinda CC

To me, the publics get a bit trickier

-Pasatiempo
-Pebble Beach
-Spyglass
-Bayonet (Haven't seen/played the revamped version)
-Wente Vineyards (Love it even though I don't think it's an enjoyable walk)
-Saddle Creek (Played it before homes were built)

Anyway, looking into this confirms I'm going to be busy when retirement comes- 2035!

Scott

[Jed Peters]

I think this thread is great because it allows one like myself to look at some other tracks that are in need of a play or two. Also, perhaps a second look?

One thing that I CAN conclude, is that I don't feel comfortable categorizing or rating a golf course in an area until I've played it.

So my top 10 will remain as such, and I'll have to modify accordingly. I hope to add Cal Club to the mix shortly, I hope that knocks a course off.

Oh, another thing is that MPCC-Shore must be ranked higher than either golf or golf digest give it credit for--there's MANY on here who tout it as some of there personal faves in the area....placed well above other (higher) ranked courses.....

[Pat Burke]

My top 10 would go like this:

Cypress Point Club
Pebble Beach
San Francisco Golf Club
Olympic Club- Lake
Pasatiempo
MPCC-Dunes
Meadow Club
Monterey Peninsula CC- Shore
Spyglass Hill
Cal Club

Why?  Because I think MPCC-Dunes is better than Shore, and Meadow Club is better than the others at the bottom.

But it is all arguable.  Mayacama and The Preserve are darn fine golf courses.

TH

Tom,
We're going to have to get together to play golf sometime!  First, the Bayonet, andI liked the Dunes more than the Shore also (thought I was the only one!).  Cant say much positive about Poppy Hills though, of course, I'm a veteran of CP being in the rotation, and NOTING could replace that without some dissent.

[Jed Peters]

I've heard Mayacama's a must to get out to--I'd like to tee it up there sometime for sure.

The Preserve, I can see--big, bold, Fazio. Right up Huck's alley!

[Tom Huckaby]

I have indeed played Cal Club post-renovation... that's why it makes my top 10.  It would not have before. 

As for MPCC Dunes over Shore, heck it's a very close call as they are both great without a doubt.  I just think the par threes as a set are slightly better at Dunes, and 10 and 14 are each SO fantastic, that it just makes me smile more playing those holes.  I also kinda like how the front nine builds and builds with each hole getting successively better until you get to the great holes 8-9-10...  Dunes also just seems to play FASTER... no pileups as seem to always happen on Shore... heck as I say they are both great, so it's just these little things that make me prefer Dunes.

As for Poppy Hills, I can see NOT liking it if one has to play it to earn a living.  Thankfully I have never had to do that.  And it would piss me off also having that course replace Cypress.   

Mayacama is fantastic, as is Preserve.  But this is a very tough Top 10 to crack.


TH

[Reef Wilson]

I'm surprised to see only a brief mention of Coyote Moon or maybe not many have made it up there yet? I would put it above Darkhorse for sure. I think it would make my top 10 public.
Reef

[Tom Huckaby]

I'm surprised to see only a brief mention of Coyote Moon or maybe not many have made it up there yet? I would put it above Darkhorse for sure. I think it would make my top 10 public.
Reef

Great call there, from all I hear.  I have yet to play it though.  Some here have.  It has received pretty unanimously positive reviews from those who have.

TH

[Tim Leahy]

I now live within a mile or two of Del Paso CC in Sacramento. It looks like a course I'd like. Anyone played it who believe it might belong top dozen in Northern California?

Dan:

I have to get some guys from here out there. I know JSPayne and one other (I gotta look who) want to play there, I can play whenever I want for pretty cheap, we have an open reciprical with them.

Have you played Morgan Creek? It's WAY better than Granite Bay....even before they hacked it to shit.

I would be interested in playing Del Paso when the weather warms up.

Also I would add Rancho Murieta North to the best privates list and Apple Mountain to the public lists.

My own top ten of courses I have played would be:

1) Olympic Lake
2) Pebble Beach
3) Spyglass Hill
4) Bayonet
5) Pasatiempo
6) Harding Park
7) Rancho Murieta North
Meadow Club
9) Greys Crossing
10) Cache Creek Yoche de he

[Wyatt Halliday]

I'm surprised to see only a brief mention of Coyote Moon or maybe not many have made it up there yet? I would put it above Darkhorse for sure. I think it would make my top 10 public.
Reef

Great call there, from all I hear.  I have yet to play it though.  Some here have.  It has received pretty unanimously positive reviews from those who have.

TH

I would definitely second the Coyote Moon nomination. I believe it should replace the listed nomination for Old Greenwood.

I still chuckle about Gib's old posts regarding OG vs CM, they are worth researching if one is so inclined!

[JSPayne]

I haven't played Coyote Moon either, but reminds me that it needs to be put on my list. Especially since it was designed by the same archie as my course.....and two of the other courses the company I work for manages.

Which brings to mind an idea......maybe we should have a GCA event at one of these Brad Bell facilities, similar to what was done with Kyle Phillips at Morgan Creek, and see if we can't invite Brad in order to pick another NorCal born and raised archies brain? Plenty of good courses to choose from for the event: Teal Bend, Turkey Creek, Empire Ranch, Coyote Moon, Apple Mountain.....am I missing any?

What say ye, NorCal golfers? I've never met the man, but would have a few questions for him for sure.....in particular about our 18th hole. 

[Kyle Henderson]

I haven't played Coyote Moon either, but reminds me that it needs to be put on my list. Especially since it was designed by the same archie as my course.....and two of the other courses the company I work for manages.

Which brings to mind an idea......maybe we should have a GCA event at one of these Brad Bell facilities, similar to what was done with Kyle Phillips at Morgan Creek, and see if we can't invite Brad in order to pick another NorCal born and raised archies brain? Plenty of good courses to choose from for the event: Teal Bend, Turkey Creek, Empire Ranch, Coyote Moon, Apple Mountain.....am I missing any?

What say ye, NorCal golfers? I've never met the man, but would have a few questions for him for sure.....in particular about our 18th hole. 

Omissions: Yoche-de-he, and Catte Verdera (remodel, same with Apple Mountain).

Grest idea!

[JSPayne]

I knew I had forgotten.....and I SHOULD know, it's in my job description (well, if it's not, it should be!).

To top it all off, having not played all his courses, but most.....seems like he keeps getting better with age. I hear nothing but rave reviews for Yocha-de-He and Coyote Moon alike (oddly enough the only two I haven't played....yet).

If no one else is really up for the task, maybe I'll have to head up the event....any requests on a particular course? The dates will have to avoid conflicting with the KP......maybe early summer? June?

Anyone know Brad or have a contact besides just using his website?

[Jed Peters]

i'd be in, as long as it's not at Turkey Creek or Teal Bend

No, I'd be in pretty much whereever!

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