[Jed Peters]

How about the simplistic Pacific Grove Muny? Is there a sportier bargain in NOCAL golf? The KP day there was a great choice last April. Top 10 ? probably not but a must if you are looking for a fun little track for a quick round.           Jack

Jack, I've had the same thought. The excuses could be... The listers within this forum would never support a sub 6k yard course as great. They believe heavily size matters. Throw in a faulty hole by hole analysis protocol and you have people actually suggesting some real dogs jst because they are long and/or difficult.

Adam,

Not all of them.

Jed

[Jim Nugent]

Would any Tahoe area courses make the list? 

[Kyle Henderson]

JSPayne,
Edgewood is in Nevada... just barely.

[Joshua Pettit]

San Geronimo (Vernon McCann)

[Joshua Pettit]

Top 10 lists aren't usually my style, but why not...

A-LIST:
Cypress Point
San Francisco
Pasatiempo
Pebble
Cal Club
Meadow Club
Monterey Peninsula Shore
Claremont
Olympic Lakeside
Sharp Park Circa 1932!

WILD CARD: San Geronimo (Potentially)

BEST 9 HOLE: Aetna Springs or Northwood

B-LIST:
Spyglass
Olympic Ocean
Harding Park
Lake Merced
Stanford
Sonoma
Orinda
MPCC Dunes
Spanish Bay
Pacific Grove

[Joshua Pettit]

NOTE: Norcal stretches from the Oregon Border, to the Nevada Border, south to Monterey County, and in the Central Valley, includes Fresno County to the south. Because I said so.

Jed,

I agree with your "definition" of Northern California, although it would have to be considerably different if we were strictly speaking in geographic terms.

[JSPayne]

Ok, now I've got my list, so this is gonna be a four-part exercise. I feel the need to seperate them because I can only firmly stand by the courses I've played, and can only recommend the courses I haven't based on others' respected opinions. So here goes, in no particular order (ranking them is still too tough for me):

TOP 10 NOR CAL PRIVATES I'VE PLAYED:

Catta Verdera CC (used to be Twelve Bridges)
Granite Bay GC
Lake Merced GC
Meadow Club
Morgan Creek G&CC
Orinda CC
SFGC
Serrano CC
Sharon Heights G&CC
Stockton G&CC

TOP 10 NOR CAL PUBLICS I'VE PLAYED:

Darkhorse GC
Half Moon Bay - Ocean Course
Old Greenwood GC
Pacific Grove Muni
Pasatiempo
Pebble Beach GL
Poppy Hills
Spyglass
The Resort at Squaw Creek
Whitehawk Ranch

TOP 10 NOR CAL PRIVATES I HAVEN'T PLAYED:

Cypress Point
Del Monte CC
Monterey Penninsula CC
Olympic Club - Lake
Winchester CC
Del Paso CC
Cal Club
Sonoma GC
Mayacama
Martis Camp

TOP 10 NOR CAL PUBLICS I HAVEN'T PLAYED:

Wente Vineyards
Spanish Bay
Harding Park
Stevinson Ranch
San Juan Oaks
Yocha-de-He (Cache Creek Casino)
Bayonet/Blackhorse (I'm gonna count them as one)
Coyote Moon
Crystal Springs
Presidio

(I must note that while the 10 privates I haven't played are a legit list because there are so many great ones, the 10 publics I haven't played was tougher and I do feel there may be some I've played that didn't make my "played" top 10 list, but may be better than a few on my "haven't played" top 10 list.)

[Adam Clayman]

Js. Slight corection, Del Monte is public.

[JSPayne]

Thanks Adam.....don't know why I thought private. Shows how badly I need to play. LOL However, I'll leave the lists as is.

Just one more thing......as I'm looking over my lifetime list, my totals:

106 total (I might be missing some on the total as I just started this list a year ago mostly from memory and I know this comes no where close to many on this board, but I was proud to surpass the 100 mark this year)

93 are in CA

76 are in Nor Cal

This would is the perfect thread to satisfy my curiousity if there are others on this board who've played more Nor Cal courses. Not trying to boast at all because I flip through the NCGA Bluebook and I haven't even come close to playing half of what is offered in Nor Cal, but having lived here most my life, I've played quite a few.

Tom H? Adam C? Tim L? Jed? Kyle? Anyone else have lists or feel they've played quite a handful?

I can't wait for retirement (LOL.....boy is that a long way off) to try and start competing with those 1000+ lists that some lay claim to on this board. Those numbers blow my mind......

[Adam Clayman]

I lived in nocal for 6 years. I'm certain I've not played anywhere near your number. But other courses that could qualify are Chabot, Preserve, Tilden. I'm not saying they'd be on my list but they are likely someones favorite.

[Tom Huckaby]

JSP:

Seems to me you've all covered it pretty darn well - not much for me to add.

Re Pacific Grove Muni, I remain a big fan.  It could sneak into Top 10 Public... but the competition over the VERY large area that Jed defined makes that problematic.  That's a lot of great courses....

Re Cal Club, man I think it should be in Top 10 private - it really is that good now.

TH

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Couple other's i'd add to their respective lists, although towards the end:

Private
Richmond CC - has a number of good holes, and is quite interesting when the wind it up.

Public
Peacock Gap - Very fun golf course.
Metropolitan - fun, links-like golf course
Monarch Bay - Holes 2-8 and 11-17 are interesting, links-like golf.  exposed to the wind off the bay.  The other holes are non-descript tree-lined holes that would be well-served to lose their trees.

[Tom Huckaby]

I like each of Metro and Monarch Bay quite a lot (have yet to play the new Peacock).  In fact I think either is as good as PG Muni at the very least.  Good calls there.

Richmond CC is a pretty damn good course too as I recall - but it's been a long time since I've seen it.  Wasn't there a pretty serious re-do there recently?  I could be thinking of something else.

[JohnV]

I'm not sure that Richmond had a redo, but they did do a lot of drainage work in the last 2 years so that one or more holes were frequently closed.

Depending on how far south you are willing to go with "Northern" California, Hunter Ranch could definitely be included a list of good public courses.  Since it is in the NCGA territory, I think it is fair to include it.

[Patrick Kiser]

Patrick and Jed,

Back off fellas I'm just throwing it out there...A few other guys mentioned DarkHorse, Pacific Grove, and Roddy Ranch and i'm not seeing any venom thrown thier way. 

I know there are many folks on GCA.com who really really like Spanish Bay even though they won't say it publicly. And they've told me they would likely play that over the likes of at least a few others I've seen.  But i'll let them speak for themselves.

Happy New Year Kalen! 

In my defense, I didn't even notice Kyle's mention of Darkhorse or Roddy until AFTER my response.  I guess you did position your suggestions as HM. 

I can't speak to the Links at SB because I haven't played it, but from what I've read and heard ... I think I will have mixed feelings about it.  My approach when I play it will be to simply forget "the Links" portion and take it as something different. 

I agree Pacific Grove has no business in the top 10.  The front 9 is just too pedestrian for what's on the board here.

I don't normally like to compare courses, but I will say that Roddy has more going on than Poppy Ridge on not too dissimilar topography.  The routing is more interesting in my opinion.  There are also some holes on top of some shelves exposed to the wind that make it a more interesting challenge in my opinion.  Certainly more quirk, which to me equates with fun.  The facilities and wide expanse at Poppy Ridge are great.  Ed will attest to that, but the nines in themselves are not that great in my opinion.

However, I will agree with Kyle about Darkhorse.  Putting aside the dismal conditions when I played it, the ridiculous pin placements the day I played it, and the obnoxious housing development going in and hammering the day I played it ... the course is rather fun and interesting.  Let's put it this way, if you said to me Pat you can only choose betwen Poppy Ridge, Poppy Hills, Pacific Grove, Roddy or Darkhorse.  What's it gonna be?  Well with just about no hesitation I will say Darkhorse. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

That's a wise position re Spanish Bay.  Also put aside any thoughts on what might have been... take it for what it is now, and well... if you can tell me that's not a far better golf course than most public courses to which you want to compare it, I will be very surprised.  Let's just say this:  I have played Darkhorse, and one has to really hate seaside golf to put Darkhorse above it.  And I liked Darkhorse a lot.

As for your choice at the bottom, I'd take Darkhorse over all except Poppy Hills, and quite clearly so at that.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Patrick,

Not a problem at all...I was only surprised I was being singled out after many others less-than-desireable nominations.  Now if I had said The Ranch and Santa Teresa then I would have deserved to be pushed over the cliff for sure.   

No doubt SB does incorrectly set expectations by including Links in its title..but there are no links courses in the entire area except a few holes on the back 9 of PG so I'm not sure how many expect to find an actual links course there.  It does benefit from a world class location and several interesting holes.

[Patrick Kiser]

TH,

I'll definitely keep those thoughts in mind for SB when I get around to playing it.

You really mean what you say about PH over Darkhorse?  Interesting...

BTW, you need to check out Peacock Gap.  I agree with Wayne that Forrest has turned that thing into something fun.  I'm still not too crazed about the bowl in that one green, but at least it had the merit of being different.


Jed,

I'm reading back through the posts and I'm starting to wonder if this isn't just too hard a topic to get a definitive answer.  It's quickly becoming a smorgesborg or sorts.

[Tom Huckaby]

Interesting you mention Santa Teresa, Kalen.

It will certainly make no Top 10 of anything, with the exception of it definitely belongs in Top 10 Slowest-Playing courses that Really Shouldn't Be.

However... if one was to do this based on categories... well it is a darn fine muni.  I really think the only superior muni would be Pacific Grove.

I am puzzling over whether it is superior to Metropolitan... they're very different... tough call.. likely Metro wins.  Any thoughts from those who have played both?

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

I would indeed take Poppy Hills over Darkhorse.  But then again I have always liked Poppy Hills and never understood the complaints from non-pros about it.

And hell yes I need to check out Peacock Gap!  We ought to have a GCA outing there.  Some hate it, for sure..... but it does appear to be right up my alley.  I love quirk/different.

TH

[Patrick Kiser]

Interesting you mention Santa Teresa, Kalen.

It will certainly make no Top 10 of anything, with the exception of it definitely belongs in Top 10 Slowest-Playing courses that Really Shouldn't Be.

However... if one was to do this based on categories... well it is a darn fine muni.  I really think the only superior muni would be Pacific Grove.

I am puzzling over whether it is superior to Metropolitan... they're very different... tough call.. likely Metro wins.  Any thoughts from those who have played both?

TH

Metro vs. PG?

I think if I set aside the "candy" of the Monterey views, then Metro.  Otherwise, PG.

The real problem I have with Metro these days are the conditions and the price tag.  Pretty poor last time I played it about 3-4 months ago.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:  I meant Metro v. Santa Teresa.

And conditions and price tag do matter.

It's likely Metro.. but then again I have always gotten a good price there and conditions have been pretty darn good.  If either of those fail, ST wins.

BTW I do put PG above ST pretty clearly.  Ocean views matter also.  But links-style holes and playing conditions matter more.  I also enjoy the quirky weird front nine.

TH

[Kyle Henderson]

Patrick and Jed,

Back off fellas I'm just throwing it out there...A few other guys mentioned DarkHorse, Pacific Grove, and Roddy Ranch and i'm not seeing any venom thrown thier way. 

I know there are many folks on GCA.com who really really like Spanish Bay even though they won't say it publicly. And they've told me they would likely play that over the likes of at least a few others I've seen.  But i'll let them speak for themselves.

Happy New Year Kalen! 

In my defense, I didn't even notice Kyle's mention of Darkhorse or Roddy until AFTER my response.  I guess you did position your suggestions as HM. 

I can't speak to the Links at SB because I haven't played it, but from what I've read and heard ... I think I will have mixed feelings about it.  My approach when I play it will be to simply forget "the Links" portion and take it as something different. 

I agree Pacific Grove has no business in the top 10.  The front 9 is just too pedestrian for what's on the board here.

I don't normally like to compare courses, but I will say that Roddy has more going on than Poppy Ridge on not too dissimilar topography.  The routing is more interesting in my opinion.  There are also some holes on top of some shelves exposed to the wind that make it a more interesting challenge in my opinion.  Certainly more quirk, which to me equates with fun.  The facilities and wide expanse at Poppy Ridge are great.  Ed will attest to that, but the nines in themselves are not that great in my opinion.

However, I will agree with Kyle about Darkhorse.  Putting aside the dismal conditions when I played it, the ridiculous pin placements the day I played it, and the obnoxious housing development going in and hammering the day I played it ... the course is rather fun and interesting.  Let's put it this way, if you said to me Pat you can only choose betwen Poppy Ridge, Poppy Hills, Pacific Grove, Roddy or Darkhorse.  What's it gonna be?  Well with just about no hesitation I will say Darkhorse. 

I listed Roddy as one of my FAVORITES, but I agree it is not anything close to the best in Nor Cal. Still, especially given the difficult site, that course turned out very well. Plus, I usually pay around $25-35 with cart. It's clearly better than Pacific Grove, Poppy Ridge and Poppy Hills IMHO. I haven't played enough of the private (or uber-$$$ public) courses to truly answer Jed's initial postulate.

[Bill_McBride]

I like each of Metro and Monarch Bay quite a lot (have yet to play the new Peacock).  In fact I think either is as good as PG Muni at the very least.  Good calls there.

Richmond CC is a pretty damn good course too as I recall - but it's been a long time since I've seen it.  Wasn't there a pretty serious re-do there recently?  I could be thinking of something else.

If I recall correctly (not a sure thing anymore), Neal Meagher did some pretty serious work on the bunkers.

[Mike Golden]

it's hard for me to imagine Lake Merced not getting more credit, it is a really good, tough golf course, great membership (it was better, of course, a few years ago when I was there lol), and world class food.

Maybe it's just me but I don't share the love for Pacific Grove-granted, I only played the back 9 once after a morning round at Poppy Hills but it didn't float my boat.  Yes, there are some Scottish-like links holes but is that enough to create this cult-like admiration? If it's a price issue, why wouldn't Pete's Pajaro Valley be a better choice since the conditioning is so far superior and the layout has some pretty good stuff?

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