Could Bandon Trails be better?

[Reef Wilson]

For those who haven't been, it might seem from this discussion that you are required to take a cart between 13 and 14, but FYI, you're not.

In fact the little foot trail that runs through the woods parallel to the dirt road is quite pretty. I've had way longer walks between holes at several cart oriented courses in housing developments. For whatever reasons (shortness/difficulty) there usually seems to be a wait on 14 tee anyway so I say take your time and take the footpath.

I have always felt that most people's attitude of 14 is largely colored by their score on their first playing. I hit 2 lucky shots and almost birdied it the first time I played it and despite hacking it mostly since then, I look forward to playing it again.

On a personal note, I have yet to shoot a decent score on Trails and I look forward to doing so next month. I find myself dreading 16 more than anything else. There is just no decent stance on the third shot.

Reef

[Adam Clayman]

Knowing now, what and who, put their heart and soul into this course, its laughable that anyone but the most experienced could suggest a change. Especially to the routing.   

[Anthony Gray]

  Michael,

  Very thought provoking routing ideas.

  Anthony

[Josh_Lesnik]

Guys (and Gals?),

Thanks for all of this feedback on the design of the course.  I'll forward this to Mike Keiser, he'll love to see it.

According to our surveys and customer comments, better players do favor Trails -- Its actually a growing number of guests as the course matures.  Right or wrong, we've always thought the three courses should all be priced the same, and we've stuck with that philosophy.

Thanks again,

Josh

[Tim Pitner]

Right or wrong, we've always thought the three courses should all be priced the same, and we've stuck with that philosophy.

Josh,

I think that's the right way to go.  Different people prefer different courses at Bandon and pricing them equally avoids creating a perception that one course is more pretigious than another.  I think that's good for the resort.  Don't change a thing. 

[Kalen Braley]

Right or wrong, we've always thought the three courses should all be priced the same, and we've stuck with that philosophy.

Josh,

I think that's the right way to go.  Different people prefer different courses at Bandon and pricing them equally avoids creating a perception that one course is more pretigious than another.  I think that's good for the resort.  Don't change a thing. 

Tim,

Are you suggesting that Bandon is a socialist resort because all are equal in the eyes of its master and our checkbooks?  Won't that just breed mediocrity in the end game?










J/K...don't answer that.

[Wyatt Halliday]

Right or wrong, we've always thought the three courses should all be priced the same, and we've stuck with that philosophy.

Josh,

I think that's the right way to go.  Different people prefer different courses at Bandon and pricing them equally avoids creating a perception that one course is more pretigious than another.  I think that's good for the resort.  Don't change a thing. 

Tim,

Are you suggesting that Bandon is a socialist resort because all are equal in the eyes of its master and our checkbooks?  Won't that just breed mediocrity in the end game?










J/K...don't answer that.

Based on that logic, I would gladly pay Chrome Lake prices for the Grove Cottages

[Tim Pitner]

Are you suggesting that Bandon is a socialist resort because all are equal in the eyes of its master and our checkbooks?  Won't that just breed mediocrity in the end game?

Kalen,

Are you suggesting Old MacDonald will be mediocre? 

I don't think socialism has much to do with it.  I've only been to Bandon in the summer/fall and, at those prices, it had better be a capitalist enterprise. 

Personally, I don't like the resort model where one course is the flagship and the others are mere filler.  One of the reasons I find Bandon attractive is that is has 3 strong courses (soon to be four?) and why shouldn't the pricing reflect their general equality.  I'm probably in the majority here in rating PD-BT-BD 1, 2, 3, but other people feel differently so why would the resort want to reinforce a belief (if it exists) that BT is the less desirable course to play.  When you're at a destination resort like Bandon, I doubt taking $20 off BT's green fee would have much effect anyway.  You're going to play the courses you want to play. 

[Wyatt Halliday]

You're going to play the courses you want to play. 

Most non GCA folks that I've talked to prefer BD by a wide margin over the other two which brings up an interesting question that I'm sure has been answered here before....Which course receives the most play (rounds per year)?

It seems obvious that it would be BD-1, PD-2, BT-3, but I wonder what the margin would be for each.

Please post a link if I have missed it. Thanks.

[Kalen Braley]

Tim,

I guess I should have also included a bunch of smileys when i said "J/K - Don't answer that", but then I thought it spoke for itself well enough that it was an attempt at sarcasm.

No doubt the Resort at Bandon is captalism hard at work in peak form and thats exactly why I think different pricing schemes can be used to even out play on the various courses. If BD gets the most play, followed by PD, then BT, then these pricing structures can be created to even that traffic out if thats the goal.  For example if during peak season a replay round at BT is $50 cheaper than BD, then many will probably jump at that.

As for Old Mac, its hard to say what it will be, and/or if it will shine.  After all, if I understand correctly, it was built by a "socialistic" consortium of alleged "golf design gurus".  Emoticons included.          

[Tim Pitner]

Kalen,

I knew you weren't entirely serious, but I oppose the kind of pricing structure you suggest.  IMO, Bandon has made a good decision in marketing a golf experience rather than individual courses.  If that's your philosophy, it doesn't make much sense to segment the market or have your courses competing against one another. 

[Chip Gaskins]

my group played one round on Trails and walked into the pro-shop and rearranged our entire trip to cancel bandon dunes and and add more bandon trails.

i will forever scratch my head at how anyone remotely thinks bandon dunes is a better golf course than bandon trails.  better experience....maybe given the ocean views....but better golf course, no way.

[Kirk Gill]

I have always felt that most people's attitude of 14 is largely colored by their score on their first playing.

Do you think that people's attitudes towards this hole would be very different if they were playing match play?

[Wyatt Halliday]

I have always felt that most people's attitude of 14 is largely colored by their score on their first playing.

Do you think that people's attitudes towards this hole would be very different if they were playing match play?

Kirk,

As previously stated, I would add Trails #16 to the equation. In addition, two other notably divisive #16's would be #16 at Ballyneal, and #16 at Black Mesa.

[Jed Peters]

my group played one round on Trails and walked into the pro-shop and rearranged our entire trip to cancel bandon dunes and and add more bandon trails.

i will forever scratch my head at how anyone remotely thinks bandon dunes is a better golf course than bandon trails.  better experience....maybe given the ocean views....but better golf course, no way.

100% Correct.

The last 3 years, I'll have carded 3 rounds on BD, 12 on PD, and 9 on trails.

The only reason we play BD every year is because inevitably there's someone on the trip that hasn't played it before, and well, it's there.

[Rob Rigg]

My money would be on PD getting the most rounds because:

1) It is ranked the highest by all the mags
2) It has a scenery advantage over BT
3) It is ranked as 1st or 2nd by everyone I have spoken to who have been to Bandon, and will therefore get more play than BD or BT which get the ominous 3rd ranking from guests and therefore less play

I think BD would get the second most because:

1) Every "average" golfer I have spoken to about Bandon rates BD as their favorite or second favorite with PD their other preferred (and there are more "average" golfers than "good" or "into GCA"
2) Scenery and more open layout (fewer lost balls)

I think BT gets the fewest rounds because:

1) Preferred by low handicappers and "frustrating" for many high handicappers
2) No ocean views
3) Tougher walk than the others
4) Newest course

[Jim Nugent]

According to our surveys and customer comments, better players do favor Trails -- Its actually a growing number of guests as the course matures. 

Josh, can you tell us what "better players" means in terms of handicaps? 

[Josh_Lesnik]

Jim,

Call it 0-9 Index.  However, and you know this as well as I do, there are people in the 10-18 range that are very competitive and highly motivated to improve their game so they want to challenge themselves by playing what might be perceived as more challenging courses.

Josh

[Jed Peters]

Jim,

Call it 0-9 Index.  However, and you know this as well as I do, there are people in the 10-18 range that are very competitive and highly motivated to improve their game so they want to challenge themselves by playing what might be perceived as more challenging courses.

Josh

I think Josh's surveys are pretty much spot on--I've visited Bandon with a number of people over the years, and no doubt BT is more attractive to the "lower" handicaps--they just seem to appreciate it more.

[Kyle Henderson]

And, to be honest, that golf course is VASTLY underrated, and superior IMHO to Bandon Dunes.

I don't know that BT is VASTLY underrated -- it is ranked in the top 50 U.S. course after all.

However, I whole-heartedly agree that it's better than BD, which is ranked even more highly by most publications.

[Damon Groves]

I think it says a lot about how good all three courses are, soon to be four, given the amount of discussion there is about which is better. If they weren't all such good courses it would be pretty obvious how they ranked. All three are fantastic and I think it just comes down to preference in style. The fact that Mike Keiser had each designed by someone else allows for a big difference in style and adds to the magic of the place.

[Adam Clayman]

Damon, That's an interesting take on style.

I'll give it more thought, but my initial reaction is there's more to quantifying what's better, than just a preference to a style. Not for the average bloke, who doesn't give gca a thought beyond his own game, but certainly we can strive for better.

[Damon Groves]

Adam -

I could have broken down each of the Bandon courses by examining the ground features and scale, the strategic elements of each course, or the memorability of each course but my point is that I think we all agree these three courses are great courses so why go into detail something we all seem to already agree upon. My point is that once we get to that level of agreement I think a lot of times it does come down to style.

For example look the the top 100 rankings in Golf Digest versus Golf Magazine and you see some large descrepencies between the two. What is the difference in where some courses are ranked on one list versus the other? Style. While I may not like many of Pete Dye's designs there are those who love his work. It does not mean I do not respect what he did for golf architecture in moving it from the boring designs of the 50', 60's and 70's and can break down his courses and agree some are very good and worthy of being ranked where they are. I simply do not prefer his style and human nature is I am going to likely rank his courses accordingly. Just like the discussion here with Bandon Trails.

[Jeff Doerr]

For those who haven't been, it might seem from this discussion that you are required to take a cart between 13 and 14, but FYI, you're not.

In fact the little foot trail that runs through the woods parallel to the dirt road is quite pretty. I've had way longer walks between holes at several cart oriented courses in housing developments. For whatever reasons (shortness/difficulty) there usually seems to be a wait on 14 tee anyway so I say take your time and take the footpath.

I have always felt that most people's attitude of 14 is largely colored by their score on their first playing. I hit 2 lucky shots and almost birdied it the first time I played it and despite hacking it mostly since then, I look forward to playing it again.

On a personal note, I have yet to shoot a decent score on Trails and I look forward to doing so next month. I find myself dreading 16 more than anything else. There is just no decent stance on the third shot.

Reef

I have to agree with Reef on this one. One of the really cool views at Bandon is looking back down 13 from the trail. It also gives you a sense of anticipation as you hike up to the tee shot that awaits.