Maybe Matt Ward is not 100% wrong

[Matt_Ward]

David, et al:

Yes, I have heard some glowing comments about Concession -- but just ask yourself this ...

a course may be outstanding for Florida when held against other Florida courses. That doesn't mean to say that such a course would be worthy of national acclaim. To use Mike S's statement on what constitutes a "big time course."

David, one final item on Jack -- given his age I'm sure the Bear is no too thrilled when he plays poorly at such events.

[Greg Tallman]

Mike S:

The answer regarding your photo is the same answer in regard to courses in Mexico -- because the courses are developed for real estate first, and golf second.

Tom, Do you lump Bahia de los Sueños in this category?

First impression was that you were not given entirely free reign of the site. Certainly compelling (and contrasting) land but were you constrained by developement concepts at all?

I think Paul Cowley could confirm but I think Davis and he were given a virtually blank canvas on which to create at Diamante... now if we only get to see the place open.

[David_Madison]

Matt:

When I thought of Jack likely struggling as he played the course, it was with sadness as he was always a hero of mine. And surely a man in his late 60's, even Jack Nicklaus, could never be expected to handle a challenging 7500 yard course.

As for the course itself, I thought The Concession to be a truly excellent course in and of itself, not just in comparison with other Florida courses. True it lacks desirable rolling terrain and anything in terms of views off the course, and the course is attached to a housing development. Still, the course has many of the features that are highly valued on this website, on par with other courses that are nationally acclaimed - - tee shot width with strategic driving demands, challenging yet varied greens complexes requiring approach shot management while offering all kinds of recovery options, varied par 3's, 4's, and 5's, and as I indicated in my earlier post fantastic ground conditions with designed-in opportunities to take advantage of the ground game on approach and recovery shots.

[Matt_Ward]

David:

I know of a close contact here in No Jersey that's a member and he raves about the place. His home course here is no slouch so I know that his comments about Concession are not driven by being a member alone.

David, given your analysis of Concession -- how bout you list your top Florida courses -- irrespective of category type? I'd like to see what your overall senses are.

One last thing -- the limitations of the terrain really do hurt many Florida courses -- I stand by what I said -- being the best of the Sunshine State is not the same thing as being the best of the nation (with a few exceptions such as Seminole and TPC / Sawgrass, to name a quick two).

Be curious to see how Concession fares in future state polls of Florida golf.

Thanks for sharing ...

[Jonathan Cummings]

Dave/Matt - add me to the list that thinks Concession is waaaaay up there on the FL lists.  They're probably staring into a financial inferno with their development model and the current state of the economy/FL real estate market but I hope they are able to figure something out.  Azinger lives on the course and plays it most everyday he's home.  He held the course record when I played it last year.  JC

[David_Madison]

Matt:

Glad to give you a sense of my preferences. I used to live in Florida but left the state 8 years ago. I've played a few of the state's top courses, but some too many years ago to provide more than general impressions. If I don't mention a course here, I haven't played it (so when you don't see Seminole here, it doesn't mean that I don't think it might be the best in the state.)

The Concession - outstanding as described earlier; perhaps the best in the state that I've seen
Other courses in my personal top group include Jupiter Hills; Pine Barrens (although I don't think it's kept up in the challenge/shotmaking area as it was when it was new); Pine Tree; TPC Sawgrass; Lake Nona. My next two favorite public courses are Sugarloaf Mountain and Colony West.  I've played Black Diamond and Trump Int'l and thought thought them over-rated. Courses like those two along with Medalist and Old Marsh fit your theory of courses that are very good within the context of comparison with Florida courses in general, but pale in comparison with courses of comparable ranking in states like New York, California, New Jersey, etc. 

[Jonathan Cummings]

I'd have to add Calusa Pines to the top FL modern list.  I'd put it even higher than Concession and Pine Barrens and just below TPC.  JC

[Carl Nichols]

What do people think of Isleworth (sp?)? I've heard a lot about the residents (and residences), but nothing about the course.

[Jason Connor]

As was stated, Florida is ALL about the housing.  Maybe sometime a developer will think golf first, but it's unlikely given what I've learned about Florida development since I moved here.

What do people think of Isleworth (sp?)? I've heard a lot about the residents (and residences), but nothing about the course.

See above.  Take a look at the satellite image and you'll see Isleworth is just a gated community with golf holes among the houses -- much like its Tavestock Cup competitor Lake Nona CC across town.

[Carl Nichols]

Jason:
Lake Nona seems to get some love on here, but Isleworth doesn't, which is one reason i asked the question, i.e., they are both high-end residential developments w/ a lot of pro golfer residents; what about Lake Nona makes it better? (FWIW, I've played Lake Nona and thought it was pretty good but certainly not great. Have not played Isleworth.)

[Patrick Hodgdon]

I caddied for a lot of people (members and guests alike) at Calusa Pines who thought it was a better (a lot of those people said considerably better) golf course than Seminole.

I would be curious to hear more thoughts from those who have played both on their evaluations of the two (as well as with TPC).

I also wonder if Tom Doak has any plans to play Calusa Pines and what it might get on the Doak scale from him and also his comparison of it to Seminole and TPC as well.

[Matt_Ward]

Be curious to know from those wishing to answer -- if weather were not a factor -- how many people would actually make the visit to Florida and really seek out the golf that's there?

I'm not talking about going because of the ocean and all the aqua-related elements.