Nicholas, when talking about C&C designs in Austin that feature very large interesting greens, are you thinking of Barton Creek? That course doesn't get a lot of love when compared to the Fazio courses there, but I love the greens at the Cliffside course and think the course is much better than the general opinion.
They are uniform only in their great size, and how they literally sprawl across the interesting contours of that site. As many as six or seven fall away rather steeply from the front toward the back - #1 a bit, #3 and #4 a lot, #8, #9, #13? par 5?, #16 for sure. And how about #6 with the wild slope from left to right? Those are amazing and very fun greens to play.
Yes Bill,
I'm thinking of the Cliffside and to a much lesser extent, AGC (though that course has mostly medium and a few small greens as well)
I've said before, I worked and played out of BC for many seasons and believe the C&C course there is the most interesting, strategic and thought provoking course of the four. I'll also go a step further, and say (because of those greens, especially after the resurfacing), its one of the most thought provoking courses in the state. I also know its the "ugly step sister", "warm-up" course for 99% of resort guests. I think if they played it with a caddie (only the Fazio courses have madatory caddies) they'd appreciate and enjoy it much more.
But many people love "Jackass" and fall asleep during "The Maltese Falcon"....there's no accounting for taste.
Most of those greens play VERY small for the player looking to make birdie. Every approach requires a decision to make in terms of working with the slopes or against, flighting the right stick high enough to stop or swinging a shorter stick low and running...
Most of the time players have to aim well away from the pin.
When pins are cut in interesting positions (like they did when we hosted the Canadian tour)
players have to choose to challenge their short game with a potential miss, or play safe and hope for 2 good putts.
Am I in the minority that I think this way is more interesting and fair for everyone than just trying to hit a green and keep in below the hole?
Nicholas,
You can keep the speed down on a small green.
If the 'average' player is an 18 hdcp., he or she is probably missing a lot of greens no matter their size. Smaller greens can give the impression of having easier recoveries, this can be a confidence booster to this player when he's missed, even though the recovery might not be so easy. I think it also more fun to use the short game versus hittng 80' putts.
Small greens 'force' the low hdcp. players to be precise.
I don't agree that most 18 handicappers would rather play out of a greenside bunker to a small green that have an 80 ft putt....in the end, they'd rather have hit the green than not.
I also think that the only thing about a smaller green that helps "keep the speed down" is the fact that they're too small to have any bold interesting moves on them....green speed is not a size issue, its a contouring one.
Also, no matter what size green your playing to, good players are generally looking to hit within 8 yards of the pin (with the appropriate club). I would MUCH rather play out of a bunker with some green to work with than have a 65 foot putt with 3 or 4 moves in it.....That would keep me pretty accurate, or force me to make some decisions about my target risk/reward.
Like I said, am I in the minority??
Is it cost? Does a 9000 sqft green with 2 bunkers cost more to maintain than a 5000 with 4 bunkers?