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Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
All totaled, I believe I have been asked this question more than 500 times. Whether on airplanes, at gatherings or even at project interviews.

What answer does the GCA crowd have? What percentage of average folks feel that a golf course design must involve a "name player"?

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mike Sweeney

Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 08:59:13 PM »
If I was a golf architect, my answer would be, "I work with Old Tom Morris."

Of course, I probably have been reading too many of Melvin's post!

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 09:05:00 PM »

Forrest:

Maybe the reply should be: "I am a professional golf course architect. When the professional golfers start asking me for swing tips  - I'll start asking them for help designing golf holes"

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 09:10:15 PM »
 8) me thinks you're asking the wrong crowd.. ::)

Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 09:10:49 PM »
Golf Architect Alistar MacKenzie has three courses in Golf Digests top 10 American courses, Augusta National, Cypress Point, and Crystal Downs. Only one of them was done with a "name" golfer, Bobby Jones. Now, do you think it is the golfer or the architect that determines the quality of the result you get?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 09:12:09 PM »
I always tell them my working name is "Dixie Post".......they move on rather quickly for some reason.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ryan DeMay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 09:14:05 PM »
If I were a golf course architect I would say that I worked with the oldest and purest golf course architect out there: mother nature.  Yes, it's corny but true.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 09:36:59 PM by Ryan DeMay »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:12 PM »
Peter Oosterhuis?

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 10:22:42 PM »
I had a brief "affair" with Peter, but nothing materialized. Peter is a great guy, but his heart is truly in broadcasting and I doubt much energy ever got afforded to architecture or new development work.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 10:25:38 PM »
I had a brief "affair" with Peter, but nothing materialized. Peter is a great guy, but his heart is truly in broadcasting and I doubt much energy ever got afforded to architecture or new development work.

It's hard to keep track of all your activities!

How has the current economy affected your bidness?  Mine is in the tank, hopefully there will be a rally in late 2009............ :(

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 10:30:06 PM »

If someone asked me today - I'd say - anyone you want....

but prefer

The professional that knows the most about maintenance budgets.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 10:31:22 PM »
Forrest,I don't think most average golfers have any idea who designed most of the courses they play(unless there is a heavy marketing effort). Then,they don't really know much about a designer other than it must be fancy since the course is so proud of it.(They would think this computer dating,as my wife calls it,is very strange.)

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 11:16:02 PM »
I could tell you but I feel a need to protect their identity.

I will say that their records include dozens of Tour events, multiple Majors, TPC's, Ryder Cups and Captaincies, World Cups and US Amateurs.

Sincerely,

The Masked Man

....btw...what airlines do you fly? I am rarely asked that question, although occasionally I will try to drop their names in an attempt to get bumped to First, or when I am air hitch hiking around various FBO's.

 ;)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 07:57:32 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 11:27:25 PM »
Forrest,
PO came to Hotchkiss some years back to walk around and have a look at the architecture, I think he was contemplating a book about Raynor.

Tall guy. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 11:40:16 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 02:48:00 AM »
How about Mr X ? What was his name again? Miller Barber I believe.

When I am asked similar things I usually say - if you wanted an Opera house designed would you get Pavarotti to do it? (despite the fact he's dead now)

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2008, 07:38:07 AM »
How about Mr X ? What was his name again? Miller Barber I believe.

When I am asked similar things I usually say - if you wanted an Opera house designed would you get Pavarotti to do it? (despite the fact he's dead now)

Neil....I very much like designing structures too, and assuming Pavarotti were still alive and wanted to build an Opera house I would love to:

Help him select a suitable site and develop a workable site plan that met the usage requirements, relative costs and proper site orientation.

I would help him sort through his likes, and equally important his dislikes, of all the Opera houses that he had performed in around the world. I would draw concept floor plans, building sections, and interior and exterior elevations so that we could come up with a design consensus of what we want to build.

I would want him be involved in the working drawing phase to help hardline the myriad of details that can occur during that part of design development.

It would be great if he could be there for groundbreaking....but even more important that he be around periodically during the construction phase, because no matter what we drew and imagined on paper, the project can only get better by time spent on site. I would also tell him that if changes are to occur, they need to be identified as early on as possible.....because we are not going to go back and tear a lot of stuff out.

I definitely would want him to spend time on the interiors finishes and fixtures, as this is what fleshes a structure out, creates the atmosphere and feeling, and is what most people react to......I would help him select through the various options of good taste and design. I would want this building to represent the closest expression of what he felt an Opera house should be.

And once all this is completed, and on the Opera houses opening night, I would expect to be in a suitable well stocked balcony, so that I could assess the public's reaction, and continue to learn for myself from their likes and dislikes.

Yeah....that would be a lot of fun.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 08:00:09 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 09:20:09 AM »
Forrest,

I suppose many of us have been asked that over the years, as have I.  I haven't done it as much as you, having only worked with a few. 

The answer I usually give is that I'll work with any professional who wants to LEARN about architecture. 

I don't expect them to get bogged down in the technical aspects but, but I do expect them to understand and be able read topography, have a grasp of why certain characteristics of the site present certain options, get a basic knowledge of strategy (before, not after the hole is shaped) and SHOW UP FOR WORK so the owner is getting what they expect.  Of course, I realize this is much more than some people want to do and I am rarely surprised at the apathetic role some of them play.

I have recently turned down work with a prominent (in his mind) professional who just did not care about anything but his chance to cash a check.  Just wanted to come four or five times and wave his hands around impress his entourage.  Even in these economic times, I just could let myself go down that road.  I'm probably not to smart (understatement) but I just got this horrible feeling that he had absolutety no respect for me, our profession, and in some ways the game itself because to him, it was only a chance for someone to give him money for something he had no passion for.

One of the best comments I ever heard on the subject was from one of our more prominent colleagues when he said, "I've pissed in the woods more than these guys have spent time designing".

Sorry if this sounds like a rant.  Wasn't supposed to. 

On a more positive note, I am currently working together with Tom Lehman on a course and feel very positive about what he brings and how things are going.  He is a good guy with a lot of fresh ideas.

Lester     



 

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 03:56:06 PM »
Paul
Are you a building architect too? I ask as I am one also, although a long time since I've done any buildings. There are a couple of GCA's who are also architects here in Australia, Tony Cashmore and Ross Perrett.
Neil

TEPaul

Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2008, 04:21:12 PM »
I tell them I work with Herodotus Von McGawthmey, and perhaps it's not odd I've yet to have anyone actually dare ask me who that is.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Correct Protocol: "What professional 'name' do you work with...?"
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2008, 04:48:18 PM »
I tell them I work with Herodotus Von McGawthmey, and perhaps it's not odd I've yet to have anyone actually dare ask me who that is.

Of the Philadelphia Von McGawthmey's?

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