With new grasses, why don't we see

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

more alterations resulting in pronounced contouring in the putting surfaces on existing greens in Florida ?

Certainly it would add a great deal of interest to an endless stream of boring greens.

Courses in Florida seem to undergo regrassing projects periodically, when embarking on those regrassing projects, why isn't more contour added ?

Adios has some of the most dramatically contoured greens in South Florida, but, they seem to be the rare exception.

Most greens on the courses I'm familiar with in South Florida seem quite bland when it comes to contour.  WHY ?

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
You have lost me with your post.  I presume you know there is a HUGE difference between "regrassing" a green and "recontouring" a green!  Most of the new grasses are designed to be cut even lower so adding contour will only create more headaches for golfers.
Mark

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Mark,

I would be hard to imagine more contouring than that found in the greens at Adios, yet, they are in great shape, consistent, and putting at 11 today.

I don't buy the maintainance issue anymore.

If Adios can maintain those greens so well, as they have for years, so can everybody else.

[Dave_Miller]

Mark,

I would be hard to imagine more contouring than that found in the greens at Adios, yet, they are in great shape, consistent, and putting at 11 today.

I don't buy the maintainance issue anymore.

If Adios can maintain those greens so well, as they have for years, so can everybody else.

Patrick:
The Greens at Admirals Cove have significant contours. I'm not overly familiar with a lot of the other courses but the contouring does not create any major maintenance issues at Admirals.
Best
Dave

[Mark Dorman]

Mark,

I would be hard to imagine more contouring than that found in the greens at Adios, yet, they are in great shape, consistent, and putting at 11 today.

I don't buy the maintainance issue anymore.

If Adios can maintain those greens so well, as they have for years, so can everybody else.

I'm not sure that it has as much to do with maintainability as it does playability.  While I have no idea as to the contours of the greens at Adios, not everyone loves greens with huge swales and multiple tiers.  The combination of those, and these new grasses that can be maintained at 0.100" or lower can lead to conditions that aren't fun for some people.  While some here may enjoy the fact that if you are not on your game you can putt your ball down a false front and 20 yards back into the fairway; some (most?) don't.

I can also imagine the length of time it takes to play a round increasing due to the contouring of the greens.

Some maintenance issues that could go along with such shaping includes scalping and localized dry spot.  I have worked on courses with such severe slopes that it is impossible to mow in a given direction due to scalping.  Although this has more to do with a dumby architect than it does mower set up or turf selection. I would say that this has little to do with maintenance, as courses before these fancy turf cultivars have had extreme slopes.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Have you seen the pictures of Wolf Point's greens?

Cheers

[Sam Morrow]

Have you seen the pictures of Wolf Point's greens?

Cheers

But Port Lavaca isn't in Florida Mike!

[Jeff Goldman]

Patrick,

Check out Bridgewater, a pretty new daily fee Smyers course in Lakeland.  Steve and design partner Patrick Andrews built soil greens using one of the new bermudas, and some of the greens are hilariously contoured.  Also, one of the few courses I have played in Florida (admittedly a small group) where the turf allows a lot of ground game options.  Really, really fun.  One thing you have to give those guys, they have a lot of guts (for good and sometimes ill).

Jeff

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff,
I think you have to be careful, Bridgewater isn't in S.Fla.   

[Jason Connor]

I don't know about alterations, but my home course in Florida has tremendous contours.
But it's a relatively new Mike Dasher design (North Shore GC).

[Sean Leary]

Nicklaus' redo of North Palm Beach did this and the results for the most part seem to have garnered negative reviews from the general public...

Does the target market (ie 60+ golfers) in South Florida in general want more contour? or do they like flat?

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Nicklaus' redo of North Palm Beach did this and the results for the most part seem to have garnered negative reviews from the general public...

I had heard that the course was very busy.
If that's the case it would seem to refute your comment with respect to negative reviews.
Kinda Yogi Berra like.
"It's too busy, so nobody goes there anymore"

Does the target market (ie 60+ golfers) in South Florida in general want more contour? or do they like flat?

Speaking for myself and my peers, we like more contour.
Flat is boring and unstrategic.

[Bill Weber]

The courses in Florida (3 private) I have been a member of when rebuilding the greens the board has gone to great lengths to assure the members the contours would not be changed. Many members, all older, have spent many years memorizing the breaks and as the eyesight diminishes with age rely on memory for reads to a great deal. At least that's my experience and take on things FWIW.