Olympic Club Lake Course -- Robert Trent Jones & Tom Weiskoph

[Rick Wolffe]

In researching the architectural history on several U.S. Open courses, there does not seem to be much published on Olympic and was hoping to get some help from GCA.  I have the following questions and would be very pleased if they can be answered here:

What specific changed did RTJ oversee at Olympic in advance of the 1955 U.S. Open?

What changes were made in advance of the 1966 U.S. Open and who was the Architect?

Same question for 1987 and 1998 U.S. Opens?  Was it Tom Weiskoph?

I saw recent article on changes being made to 8th, 7th and 15th for the 2012 U.S. Open.  Is Bill Love the architect on these?

Thank you much to everyone, especially Mike Cirba, on the last question I posted on Merion.  The historical knowledge of this board is mighty impressive.

[Joel_Stewart]

Olympic is a Sam Whiting golf course although Bill Love would love to have his name on it.  He is basically a yes man to the superintendent Pat Finlan who has pushed through the changes.

Whiting was also the superintendent up until the club hired Jones prior to the 1955 US Open when I believe he quit in disgust to what Jones was doing.  Jones basically lengthened a few holes and made it a little tighter.  Jones was meerly excuting the USGA orders to toughen up the course.

On his next go around prior to the 66 Open Jones did quite a bit of work including destroying the par 3 8th hole by taking a bulldozer to it.  He again lenghtened a number of holes and filled in probably a dozen sand traps including the fairway bunkers on #4, #9, #10, #11, #14, #16, #17 and the hidden bunker on the right of #18 at the bottom of the hill and the bunker in the hill on the left side.

Tom Weiskopf rebuilt the 15th green at some point, I believe between the 87 and 98 Opens.   That green was very small and had about 2 or 3 pin positions.  The trees had also grown around the green making it neerly impossible.  So Weiskopf expanded the green and softened the bunkers (being kind).  Now Bill Love will try and do something with that green since all the trees are now gone and the members would like it restored.  I'm expecting a complete hatchet job but will reserve judgement until the finished project is done.

I wouldn't concentrate solely on what the architects have done as the superintendents at Olympic, John Fleming and Finlan have done most of the damage by messing around with little things through out the years.  Olympic has gone the way of Medinah and Augusta and basically any classical element has been eliminated in favor of a long hard golf course.

[Chip Gaskins]

you have to see what the old #8 looked like.  i was at borders over the holiday break killing time and picked up Golf 365 and they had an overhead shot of #8 at OC and wow, look at all the trees!  i liked what i saw, though i like the hole today too.... i am heart broken to see #7 change.  i personally think OC-Lake is a course that could do nothing at all for 20 years and still not see the pros go low in the US Open.  not too many courses have so much natural defense as OC-Lake.  a shame to see all the work done, i would love to see the bunkers taken back to that shaggy look instead of the current roundness.  either way, great course, hard as shit!

[David Stamm]

Olympic is a Sam Whiting golf course although Bill Love would love to have his name on it.  

Joel, doesn't Watson get at least equal billing with Whiting for the course?

[Joel_Stewart]

Olympic is a Sam Whiting golf course although Bill Love would love to have his name on it.  

Joel, doesn't Watson get at least equal billing with Whiting for the course?

Watson and Whiting built the course in 1924 but Whiting then rebuilt it in 1927.  I believe the old 8th was one of the original holes, then it was a fortress hole with the front bunker laying flat.  That green was also a biaritz although some people just call it a swale in the middle.  That was bulldozed by Jones as I referenced above.

Chip:  I tried for years to get them to restore the bunkers to the old rough edge look but Finlan wouldnt even consider it.  For one he didn't like the way they looked and two he doesn't know how to maintain them.  So as a result you have worn out bunkers being rebuilt in the wrong shape, the wrong depth with clean modern lines.

[Joel_Stewart]

Here is agreat picture showing the depth of the bunker in 1955.  Go into this bunker now and you eye would be even with the top edge.

[Mike Benham]

Whiting was also the superintendent up until the club hired Jones prior to the 1955 US Open when I believe he quit in disgust to what Jones was doing.  Jones basically lengthened a few holes and made it a little tighter.  Jones was meerly excuting the USGA orders to toughen up the course.

Was the massive tree planting project part of Jones work prior to the '55 Open or was that already part of the club's master plan?

[Kevin_Reilly]

i am heart broken to see #7 change. 

What about it breaks your heart?  It will play about the same length and instead of three tiers as changed in the early 70's, it will have two. 

[Kevin_Reilly]

Tom Weiskopf rebuilt the 15th green at some point, I believe between the 87 and 98 Opens.   That green was very small and had about 2 or 3 pin positions.  The trees had also grown around the green making it neerly impossible.  So Weiskopf expanded the green and softened the bunkers (being kind).  Now Bill Love will try and do something with that green since all the trees are now gone and the members would like it restored.  I'm expecting a complete hatchet job but will reserve judgement until the finished project is done.

The hole was lengthened and the green rebuilt around 1986.  The front bunker was softened.  I'm not sure what trees around the green you are talking about.  The green is completely unlike anything else on the course.  The current work will (hopefully) result in a green and surrounds that are based on the pre-1986 version, removing the Weiskopf changes (except for the back tee that was added).

[Kevin_Reilly]

Whiting was also the superintendent up until the club hired Jones prior to the 1955 US Open when I believe he quit in disgust to what Jones was doing.  Jones basically lengthened a few holes and made it a little tighter.  Jones was meerly excuting the USGA orders to toughen up the course.

Was the massive tree planting project part of Jones work prior to the '55 Open or was that already part of the club's master plan?

Here is a view from 1946:

[Kevin_Reilly]

Rick Wolfe -- in advance of the 1998 Open, in addition to the changes to 15 by Weiskopf, he also lengthened the the 12th hole with a new tee built back behind the existing set of tees.  The multiple set of tees on that hole (more added since 1986), are unfortunate IMO.

[Rick Wolffe]

Thank you Joel and everyone for the help on this.  Here is the short summary that we have compiled so far.  If the facts are wrong or if things are missing, more help would be appreciated.

Olympic Lake – originally designed by Willie Watson and Sam Whiting circa 1926

The Olympic Club’s Lake Course in Daly City, California has hosted several U.S. Amateurs and U.S. Opens.  In 1918, the club took over the Lakeside Golf Club, which had just opened in 1917 but was struggling financially. Lakeside had one 18-hole golf course designed by Wilfrid Reid, but following additional land purchases the club decided to replace it with two courses. These were designed by Willie Watson, a well-known Scottish architect, and the Lake and Ocean courses opened in 1924. The Ocean course was shortly thereafter damaged by landslides, and Sam Whiting (who had constructed the two courses, and would remain as superintendent until 1954) remodeled and rebuilt both courses in 1927.  In 1953, the Lake course was lengthened by Robert Trent Jones in preparation for the 1955 U.S.Open.

Jones returned to prepare the course for the 1966 U.S. Open and completely rebuilt the par 3 8th hole.  He also lengthened a number of holes and removed dozens of sand bunkers including fairway bunkers on #4, #9, #10, #11, #14, #16, #17 and #18. 

In advance of the 1998 U.S. Open, under the direction of Tom Weiskopf, the 15th green was rebuilt and some additional length was added in particular a new multi-tee complex on the 12th hole.

The Lake Course was lengthened further in preparation for the 2007 U.S. Amateur.  Architect Bill Love directed these design enhancements -- forty yards added to the par 4 2nd hole.  A new tee constructed on the par 3 3rd, which added 30 yards.  The par 4 5th, once 457 yards, lengthened to over 500 yards from a new back tee, and the lengthening of the par 4 12th . 

The next major scheduled for the Lake Course is the 2012 U.S. Open and additional changes to the design are underway, which include rebuilding all 18 greens to USGA specifications and changes to the 7th and 8th and 15th holes.  The par 3 8th hole will be moved to the right of its present location which will turn a 137-yard par-3 into a much longer hole and will allow the 7th green to be pushed back and re-contoured.  Several other holes will be lengthened and the 15th green will also be re-contoured.  These changes are expected to be completed by June of 2009.

[David_Tepper]

Rick -

You could add that, in addition to re-building all the greens, the plan is to re-turf the greens with bent grass to replace to the nematode-vulnerable poa.

DT

[Jon Spaulding]

Joel, thanks for the run-down on the "evolution" of Lakeside. I had assumed that Jones had done the bulk of the work prior to 55, coming off his "success" at Oakland Hills .

[Joel_Stewart]

Whiting was also the superintendent up until the club hired Jones prior to the 1955 US Open when I believe he quit in disgust to what Jones was doing.  Jones basically lengthened a few holes and made it a little tighter.  Jones was meerly excuting the USGA orders to toughen up the course.

Was the massive tree planting project part of Jones work prior to the '55 Open or was that already part of the club's master plan?

Whitings original plan was for the Lake to be tree lined and the Ocean course to be wind swept so the tree planting was Whitings plan.  The tree planting got out of hand.  As an example, Whiting had no trees planted on the left of #14 and had a bunker at the left hand corner which the indentation is still there.  Jones in his hole by hole description in the 1955 US Open book called the 14th the best hole on the course as if you hooked it you could be in a lot of trouble.  Somebody ended up planting the huge row of trees at some point in the 1950's.

[David Stamm]

I seem to remember Behr advising the club at some point. Is there an exact time established of when this might have happened?

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel, thanks for the run-down on the "evolution" of Lakeside. I had assumed that Jones had done the bulk of the work prior to 55, coming off his "success" at Oakland Hills .

Jones was "the guy" for the USGA and I haven't found anything they ever considered anyone else.  The green that Jones built on #7 for the 55 Open was destroyed shortly after the Open by the green chairman Sandy Tatum.  Tatum told me that green was just a dome and was one of the worst greens he had ever seen.  It was Tatum that designed and built the 3 tier 7th green which is now being destroyed by Love and moved back a whopping 13 yards.   The only reason that green is being changed (even though it was named one of the top 500 holes in the world) is that Love only knows how to build USGA spec greens and the contours are so extreme that Love couldn't figure out how to do it.

[Joel_Stewart]

I seem to remember Behr advising the club at some point. Is there an exact time established of when this might have happened?

I've heard that as well but I think he was involved more on the Ocean course. 

[Joel_Stewart]

Architect Bill Love directed these design enhancements -- forty yards added to the par 4 2nd hole.  A new tee constructed on the par 3 3rd, which added 30 yards.  The par 4 5th, once 457 yards, lengthened to over 500 yards from a new back tee, and the lengthening of the par 4 12th . 

It should read like this,

Landscape architect Bill Love designed these changes at the direction of superintendent Pat Finlan. A new back tee was added to the par 4 2nd hole and  multi level tiered raised tees where added to the 3rd, 5th and 12th holes.

[Rick Wolffe]

Thank you Joel for the corrections...by the way, I just spoke with Stu Wolffe who reminded me that you gave him the complete ground level view of this great course when we were with you last October of 2007.

Latest summary of Olympic Lake with changes follows.  I will also be posting something on Cherry Hills and a few other U.S. Open courses and hope for some more good fact checking.



Olympic Lake – originally designed by Willie Watson and Sam Whiting circa 1926

The Olympic Club’s Lake Course in Daly City, California has hosted several U.S. Amateurs and U.S. Opens.  In 1918, the club took over the Lakeside Golf Club, which had just opened in 1917 but was struggling financially. Lakeside had one 18-hole golf course designed by Wilfrid Reid, but following additional land purchases the club decided to replace it with two courses. These were designed by Willie Watson, a well-known Scottish architect, and the Lake and Ocean courses opened in 1924. The Ocean course was shortly thereafter damaged by landslides, and Sam Whiting (who had constructed the two courses, and would remain as superintendent until 1954) remodeled and rebuilt both courses in 1927.  In 1953, the Lake course was lengthened by Robert Trent Jones in preparation for the 1955 U.S.Open

Jones returned to prepare the course for the 1966 U.S. Open and completely rebuilt the par 3 8th hole.  He also lengthened a number of holes and removed dozens of sand bunkers including fairway bunkers on #4, #9, #10, #11, #14, #16, #17 and #18. 

In advance of the 1998 U.S. Open, under the direction of Tom Weiskopf, the 15th green was rebuilt and some additional length was added in particular a new multi-tee complex on the 12th hole.

The Lake Course was lengthened further in preparation for the 2007 U.S. Amateur.  Landscape architect Bill Love designed these changes at the direction of Pat Finlan.  A new back tee was added to the par 4 2nd hole and multi level tiered raised tees were added to the 3rd, 5th , and 12th holes.

The next major scheduled for the Lake Course is the 2012 U.S. Open and additional changes to the design are underway, which include rebuilding all 18 greens to USGA specifications and changes to the 7th and 8th and 15th holes.  The par 3 8th hole will be moved to the right of its present location which will turn a 137-yard par-3 into a much longer hole and will allow the 7th green to be pushed back and re-contoured.  Several other holes will be lengthened and the 15th green will also be re-contoured.  These changes are expected to be completed by June of 2009.

[Kevin_Reilly]

In advance of the 1998 U.S. Open, under the direction of Tom Weiskopf, the 15th green was rebuilt and some additional length was added in particular a new multi-tee complex on the 12th hole.

A single back tee was added to #12 at that point.

The Lake Course was lengthened further in preparation for the 2007 U.S. Amateur.  Landscape architect Bill Love designed these changes at the direction of Pat Finlan.  A new back tee was added to the par 4 2nd hole and multi level tiered raised tees were added to the 3rd, 5th , and 12th holes.

Bill Love's description above is pejorative.  He is a member of the ASGCA.

Pat Finlen's name throughout this thread is misspelled.

[Rick Wolffe]

Corrections made...thank you much!  Please add anything else as we want this summary to be purely factual and not perjorative in any way.

Olympic Lake – originally designed by Willie Watson and Sam Whiting circa 1926

The Olympic Club’s Lake Course in Daly City, California has hosted several U.S. Amateurs and U.S. Opens.  In 1918, the club took over the Lakeside Golf Club, which had just opened in 1917 but was struggling financially. Lakeside had one 18-hole golf course designed by Wilfrid Reid, but following additional land purchases the club decided to replace it with two courses. These were designed by Willie Watson, a well-known Scottish architect, and the Lake and Ocean courses opened in 1924. The Ocean course was shortly thereafter damaged by landslides, and Sam Whiting (who had constructed the two courses, and would remain as superintendent until 1954) remodeled and rebuilt both courses in 1927.  In 1953, the Lake course was lengthened by Robert Trent Jones in preparation for the 1955 U.S.Open.

Jones returned to prepare the course for the 1966 U.S. Open and completely rebuilt the par 3 8th hole.  He also lengthened a number of holes and removed dozens of sand bunkers including fairway bunkers on #4, #9, #10, #11, #14, #16, #17 and #18. 

In advance of the 1998 U.S. Open, under the direction of Tom Weiskopf, the 15th green was rebuilt and some additional length was added in particular a new tee on the 12th hole.

The Lake Course was lengthened further in preparation for the 2007 U.S. Amateur.  Golf architect Bill Love designed these changes working with the Club's Superintendent, Pat Finlen.  A new back tee was added to the par 4 2nd hole and multi level tiered raised tees were added to the 3rd, 5th , and 12th holes.

The next major scheduled for the Lake Course is the 2012 U.S. Open and additional changes to the design are underway, which include rebuilding all 18 greens to USGA specifications and changes to the 7th and 8th and 15th holes.  The par 3 8th hole will be moved to the right of its present location which will turn a 137-yard par-3 into a much longer hole and will allow the 7th green to be pushed back and re-contoured.  Several other holes will be lengthened and the 15th green will also be re-contoured.  These changes are expected to be completed by June of 2009.

[BCrosby]

Rick -

Just a note to thank you for using GCA as you have for your research on Olympic. There are a large number of very bright people that look in here. They come with lots of knowledge covering a wide range of topics.

Pooling those resources as you have done is a wonderful example of the good GCA can do. At it's best, GCA is like a seminar attended by the best and brightest who will show up at a moment's notice.

I hope others will follow your lead when historical questions arise. This is a terrific thread and even better model for how to gather information and opinions. I don't know why GCA can't be used that way more often.

Bob

[Kevin_Reilly]

Several other holes will be lengthened

1 - no
2 - no
3 - no
4 - no
5 - no
6 - TBD, but likely
9 - yes, new tee drawn up
10 - TBD
11 - no
12 - no
13 - no
14 - no
15 - no
16 - maybe
17 - the hole has already plenty of flexibility on length as a par 4
18 - no

IMO, that is a lot of "no's" for the words "several other holes" to be correct.

[Rick Wolffe]

ok..."several" changed to "two to four holes may be lengthened"

thank you much