Golf Efficiency in the U.S.

[Mike_Young]

With all this talk of golf courses going down.....initiation fees reduced and how the economy will affect golf on an overall basis.....it brings to mnd one word...efficiency.....
The free enterprise system works if allowed.....and golf in this country has the same problem as the Unions....forced inefficiency.....it is not that golf can't work here whether it be private or public or municipal....it is that we have conceived a "golf lifestyle" that can't work and it was done not in the name of golf the game but golf the business.....and now we have it backwards.....golf the game should control golf the business yet we continue to have golf the business control golf the game.....give me some examples that will increase the efficiency of the game and allow it to work in this country....I'll start with a few.

1.  Clubhouse size needs reducing
2.  Food and Beverage needs to become an amenity to golf and other aspects of club life not a separate dept or line item
3.  Course length...adds acres which adds irrigation, mowing, fertilizer and chemicals and 99 percent cant play at the present length.
4.  Manufacturers changing golf equipment modesl on a six month schedule where it used to be a year and before that several years....
5.  locker rooms for showering and changing not living
6.  carry your own clubs from your car to the club..no cart boy...ad f you can't do this you need to get a trainer quickly....
7.  Focus on bringing the PGA professional back into the picture more than the CMAA manager....

I'll add some more later......

[Jeff_Brauer]

I do agree - building a large structure so members can play cards all day for free probably isn't renumerative, and we know big food service isn't.  However, many clubs seem to be adding more services as a way to compete as a "family" oriented business, including workout rooms, etc.  I believe you probably have to go all one way (golf only) or the other to be successful.  If the latter, then the club would merely be changing a multitude of offerings from the "old model" to the "new model" and hope it works.

As to course length, it is sad to have it for about 2% of the players who need 7300 yards plus to enjoy golf, but if properly designed to where the first 150-200 yards of their hole is over lesser/non maintained areas, it can be manageable.

As to clubs, no matter how many they bring out, I average a new set once every 8-9 years no matter what.  Maybe  a few more drivers.  I presume no one buys more than they can afford.  I believe them buying more keeps prices more reasonable for the rest of us.

In general, I agree that the model of some simple courses will probably come back to the fray in more dominant position - golf only baby!  The problem is, the infrastructure is there in many cases.  Are you suggesting we will be seeing a rash of clubhouse fires soon?

[David Sneddon]

Good thread, Mike:

8 -  get rid of all the nice flower beds & save the maintenance costs

9 - keep 4 carts for Disabled, trade in the rest for Powa-Caddies/Kangaroo (provided the course is walkable)

10 - Disband the Greens Committee - let the Super do his job under a firm & fast requirement.

There is a really good and demanding course just east of me, in London ON - Forest City Golfers Club - well named.  Nice size pro-shop not overly done, decent but not 'over the top', but more utilitarian club house. It is a CCFAD, though membership packages are available.  It seems to do quite well, offers golf and a limited kitchen, no workout room, swimming pool or horticultural gardens.

[Mike_Young]

Jeff,
We've already had one here in town.....a complete burn down.....of course arson was ruled out....sort of like William Casey having a stroke and not being able to speak re the Contras just hours before his cout appearance.....strange things do happen.....
But seriously and cynically.....I would expect above average clubhouse fires and maintenance building fires in the coming year.....we should try to track that....

[Steve Lang]

  do you mean like tilting at items such as:

eliminate the social memberships?
eliminate the children's programs
eliminate the wine tastings?
eliminate the workout room?
eliminate the pool?
eliminate the chef?
eliminate the club discount off of inflated prices sales system?

and/or

bring back the pro roaming the range instead of folding shirts..
bring back course marshals with authority instead of player hosts..
bring back dryer rather than wetter course conditions?

we're being told at WCC that it is the "lifestyle club model" that will prevail into the future, and must be invested in.. i don't buy it, just give me the golf club and a place to get out of the rain ..

[Mark Bourgeois]

It is axiomatic among insurance men that warehouses catch fire more readily during recessions.

Do Pete Dye courses, too?

[Mike_Young]

Jeff,
I agree with you as to clubs that already have the large clubhouses with ballrooms etc....MAKE EACH ACTIVITY JUSTIFY IT'S EXISTENCE.....WHICH MEANS MOST BALLROOMS WILL CLOSE..because the fully allocated cost in order to have weddings banquets etc is carried in the dues structure.....seems some are already looking a converting these large areas into small holel/B7B type areas which mean that a member may have his business clients or others stay there during a visit and would probably have breakfast, dinner and possibly golf for a much more profitable visit......as for just plain food service at clubs where they compete with several hundred local restaurants.....a friend that doesnt play golf tells me he eats his 500 dollar lunch at the club once each month......

[SB]

Mike,

I think this is going to be the most interesting part of the future of golf.  So here are my thoughts:

1.  Flowers around the tees
2.  Walk mowing greens
3.  Four guys behind the counter
4.  Four people in the administrative office
5.  Teaching pros on staff
6.  Small mowers  - Bring back the gang!
7.  Tight fairways
8.  Primo

[Mike_Young]

do you mean like tilting at items such as:

eliminate the social memberships?
eliminate the children's programs
eliminate the wine tastings?
eliminate the workout room?
eliminate the pool?
eliminate the chef?
eliminate the club discount off of inflated prices sales system?

and/or

bring back the pro roaming the range instead of folding shirts..
bring back course marshals with authority instead of player hosts..
bring back dryer rather than wetter course conditions?

we're being told at WCC that it is the "lifestyle club model" that will prevail into the future, and must be invested in.. i don't buy it, just give me the golf club and a place to get out of the rain ..

Steve,
The CMAA is rapidly and vigorously promoting that clubs will be lifestyle models in the future...I don't buy it either because it is an expensive way to gain the same things that can be had without a golf course on property....but remember...that F&B guys have to hype what brings them there....and the PGA needs to get their asses in gear and combat such instead of fearing the organization because they now hire most of them....

[Anthony Gray]

  I do not like watering of fairways. It is costly and reduces the weather variable. Let the course play firm and fast when it is dry.

  As far as the food service. Are clubs making money on food and beverages?

  Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

SBusch:

That's an excellent list.

Mike Y:

The other part of the "golf lifestyle" that doesn't work well (in the public sector) is the whole marketing end of the game.  Marketers tell course A that they will raise revenues by 20% by attracting people away from course B; then they go and tell course B the same story the other way around.  In the end they are just taking a few percentage points off the top, like stockbrokers do.

Signature design fees are part of marketing costs so they are probably headed down as well ... but in a more brutal supply-and-demand way.

[Jim Tang]

Black Sheep Golf Club, the course I am a caddie at in summers, does it right.   The club is completely about golf and enjoying the day with your buddies.  This includes....

1.  A small clubhouse with a well stocked bar, comfortable leather chairs and several flat screen t.v.'s.  The clubhouse sits on the highest point of land, overlooking the 27 hole golf course.  The clubhouse is the size of a 3 bedroom house.

2.  No inside grill.  Sandwiches, chips, bottles of water, all complimentary.  There is a small grill they keep outside on the patio and the staff will slap a couple of dogs or burgers on there if you like.

3.  The proshop is literally the size of a small bedroom, well stocked and just off the lounge.

4.  Downstairs is a modest locker, with everything you need to get cleaned up after the round.  If you want to play cards, you've got to come back upstairs to the bar.  No card room.

5.   The first and tenth tees are literally 30 feet from the clubhouse.  The bag room is 20 feet away.  The range is around the corner, a 100 yards away and the putting green is across the parking lot, which holds maybe 30 cars.

6.  There are no social clubs or social events.  The club has perhaps 5 official golf events during the season.  There are no tee times, no dress policy, no rules on how many guys you can bring with you or when.

7.  The staff inclues the pro, two assistants, a manager for the clubhouse and one guy making the food, serving drinks.

8.  The course has no sings, no trash cans or ball cleaners, no benches except for the par 3's.  The cat paths are not paved.  There are two sets of tees.  The markers are fist sized rocks.  All three nines return to the clubhouse.  The club has maybe 30 carts.

9.  The course is exceptionally walkable, with the walk from green to tee on the majority of holes being 15 yards or so.  Many greens just bleed right into the next tee.  The longest walk between green and tee is maybe 40 yards.  Many members walk.

10.  Just over 100 members.  Typical day is 15 groups.  In two years working there I've never had a group wait on one shot.  No homes border the property, it sits amongst rolling farmland.

[Sean_A]

I'll take it a step further.  Do you need to have a pro at the club?  At all the clubs I have belonged to the number of members actually taking advantage of the pro's knowledge is less than 20%.   

If you want the course minimally presented ditch a few guys on the maintenance crew, but then remember not to bitch when bounces don't go yer way. 

Take on more members.  Most courses are vastly underused. 

Take on viistors.  Most courses are vastly underused. 

Ciao

[Joel_Stewart]

eliminate the social memberships?
eliminate the children's programs
eliminate the wine tastings?
eliminate the workout room?
eliminate the pool?
eliminate the chef?
eliminate the club discount off of inflated prices sales system?

Wow.   Lets just eliminate country clubs, subsidize all golf by the federal government and make all green fees $5.   Shoot anyone who wants to ride in a cart and pay architects and club pros an annual salary of $1 million dollars tax free.

Disbanding the green committees is probably the most stupid idea I have seen.  I would agree that maybe some clubs need to train or qualify members for green committee service but giving supers complete control of a golf course is not in anyones best interest and anyone that knows me knows what I am talking about.

Golf is in bad shape and public golf is very bad.   The cost structure is out of control and there are many things that need to be focused on which is a program I am working on.   The revenue side is something very different, its a function of the economy currently, not a function of bad golf courses.

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Somebody's got to run the place ... I think Mike Y. is just saying that should be the golf professional and not the club manager.

Our structure here in the US is different than the UK ... club managers are generally more highly paid than your club secretaries [I think], even though I'm not sure how much different the job description really is.  And club professionals here are more responsible for the day-to-day operation of the course, than over there where many pros just own the shop and give lessons as an independent contractor.

I can tell you that a couple of my daily-fee courses have tried at various times to go without a real PGA pro in order to save money, and it's always been a disaster.  The professionals at other clubs are afraid to send their members over to play, because they don't know if the member will be treated decently or not.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Country clubs make sense in the country, but in the cities there are plenty of opportunities to unbundle the golf club from the dining club, the swimming club, the squash and rackets club, the fitness club....

The English are miles ahead of the Americans in this regard.  They've even unbundled the golf course from the golf club.

Sean, interesting list, insofar as The Addington has *added* the first two in order to get the latter two.  Maybe you can't have it both ways!

Mark

[BCrosby]

Mike -

I think the nub of the issue is that clubs are trying to recapture their roles as social centers. The place where families hung out. Those days are gone. But clubs have spent tons of money on massive clubhouses, ballrooms, four star chefs, ritzy locker rooms, etc. trying to bring it back.

The days of the club as a family social center are gone, for a whole range of reasons. (See Chris Millard's articles in GD.)

I don't know what the business model for clubs will be going forward, but it will be very different from the one they used over the last 20 years. And the transition will be very painful.

Bob

 

[Mike_Young]

SBausch,
Agree as to good list......
I opened a course last year where t was designed for a machine similar to Toro 11 blade transport frame wall to wall and riding greens mower.....the supt pitched a fit and had the owner buy 8 walkers and 2 liteweights fairway units....they are being traded in this winter for the gang and rider.....

TD,
As you know....for over 15000 courses all they need is marketing in about a 20 mile radius.....just like a good local restaurant or bar.....my assumption lately s that the average local prvately owned public course in the south needs to produce about 1.2 million in revenue.....if he can operate for around 725,000 and pay some debt down ....he can have a solid business most years.....I think most are going to start backing into numbers instead of dreaming....and marketing as we have seen may be out the window....

[Mike_Young]

Mike -

I think the nub of the issue is that clubs are trying to recapture their roles as social centers. The place where families hung out. Those days are gone. But clubs have spent tons of money on cmassive lubhouses, ballrooms, chefs, four star locker rooms, etc. trying to bring it back.

The days of the club as a family social center are gone, for a whole range of reasons. (See Chris Millard's articles in GD.)

I don't know what the business model for clubs will be going forward, but it will be very different from the one they used over the last 20 years. And the transition will be very painful.

Bob

 

Where will us social butterflies gather.....BTW I saw the movie Benjamim Buttons last evening....he reminded me of you...

[JSPayne]

Mike,

I think this is going to be the most interesting part of the future of golf.  So here are my thoughts:

1.  Flowers around the tees
2.  Walk mowing greens
3.  Four guys behind the counter
4.  Four people in the administrative office
5.  Teaching pros on staff
6.  Small mowers  - Bring back the gang!
7.  Tight fairways
8.  Primo

Ok, from a mainly maintenance standpoint, I've got to challange some of these....

1) Agreed.....annual flowers are a waste of time and money. However, perennial beds or native plantings can have a rightful place on a golf course, when done well with foresight and good intentions.

2) Walk mowing greens is sometimes not just a function of desire, but of necessity. In general, provided you have a perfectly maintained triplex or walk mower to choose from, the walk mower can usually provide a tighter cut with less wear than a triplex. Also, there are greens so contoured or snuggled into tight spots that it really isn't realistic to put a triplex on them. Often it can be unsafe. Walk mowers however do require either more time, or more operators to get the same job done......more labor hours essentially.

3) Agreed here as well.....however 2 may still be necessary. I just watched my front counter this morning get SLAMMED because the tee sheet is SOLID and it can be near impossible for 1 guy to check in everyone in a timely manner, especially when they want to buy a glove and can't find their size and want some balls, but want to know which play better this time of year, and want to charge part to one credit card and part to another.....if you don't mind being the guy at the back of a 20 person lineup waiting to check in, go ahead and suggest the reduced model to your pro shop.

4) Somewhat agreed, though depends on the model. I actually wish we had a club secratary or accountant because myself (as the super), the GM and the pro can't find near the time we want to get out on the course or with the customers to give the service you all seem to expect with all the laborious paperwork and number crunching and budgeting and accounts payable and personel management and all that other fun stuff managers are expected to do.

5) We have teaching pros on staff for the exact reason just listed above.....our head pro has a hard time making it out of his office between managing all his guys (pro shop desk, outside service, marshalls), scheduliing, inventory, purchasing, tournament planning, etc etc.

6) Gangs are great.....if well maintained and if your trees are few and far between. Truth is many courses would need a serious tree removal program to make use of the gang worthwhile. And others without trees would need to rework much of their mounding in order to be able to get a decent cut and not scalp the heck out of the grass.

7) Not sure what you're getting at with tight fairways.....we need to make them bigger? More grass that needs to be cut on a more regular basis? More fertilizer needed to keep them in good health due to being more stressed at a lower mowing height? Please clarify.

8.) And Primo? Are you a super? I'm pretty certain I could make a good case that the cost of buying and applying Primo as a plant growth regulator is more than worth it in improved playing conditions and the labor saved that would be needed to keep up with the mowing that would give you such playing conditions.

Almost every post on here has gotten me a little fired up and leads me to believe that not many who have posted so far are actually directly involved in running a golf course, be at as a super or pro or GM. It can sometimes be easy to think you can see and solve all that's wrong with the golf industry, but I think you'll only get a good grasp of it once you're on the inside.......there's usually reasons behind everything you dislike, if you just would take the time to talk to someone who's actually involved in the decision making about why it's done that way. Most people just use the "I know best" mentality and don't want to know the whys or why nots. Though I hate to make blanket statements, for most people who think they know better it really is sometimes "best to leave it to the professionals."

(<<--me dons flame-retardant suit )

[Bill_McBride]

Mike -

I think the nub of the issue is that clubs are trying to recapture their roles as social centers. The place where families hung out. Those days are gone. But clubs have spent tons of money on cmassive lubhouses, ballrooms, chefs, four star locker rooms, etc. trying to bring it back.

The days of the club as a family social center are gone, for a whole range of reasons. (See Chris Millard's articles in GD.)

I don't know what the business model for clubs will be going forward, but it will be very different from the one they used over the last 20 years. And the transition will be very painful.

Bob

 

Where will us social butterflies gather.....BTW I saw the movie Benjamim Buttons last evening....he reminded me of you...

Bob Crosby = Brad Pitt? 

[BCrosby]

Being slandered is a lot less fun when you haven't seen the movie.

Bob

[JMEvensky]

Mike -

I think the nub of the issue is that clubs are trying to recapture their roles as social centers. The place where families hung out. Those days are gone. But clubs have spent tons of money on cmassive lubhouses, ballrooms, chefs, four star locker rooms, etc. trying to bring it back.

The days of the club as a family social center are gone, for a whole range of reasons. (See Chris Millard's articles in GD.)

I don't know what the business model for clubs will be going forward, but it will be very different from the one they used over the last 20 years. And the transition will be very painful.

Bob

 

I agree with every bit of this and am currently having the pleasure of dealing with the Hobson's choices first hand.

Part of the problem,IMO,is that which currently constitutes a "social center" for younger people doesn't include a golf course.So,clubs try to build some Frankenstein's monster of activities for each/every segment while the most expensive part(golf course) gets less attention.

My guess is that some clubs will end up with expensive, half-assed prospective-member amenities and an ~ undermaintained golf course.Everyone will be equally pissed.

As to the coming efficiencies,I agree that eyewash will be a luxury that few will maintain but,in my experience,a few $'s worth of flowers is a great bang/buck thing for most members.If they see a flower bed maintained well they think that it's somehow a reflection of the golf course.

As to walk-mowing,I have a standing bet that we'll be ride-mowing by 1 May.The benefit is wasted on most members.

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Somebody's got to run the place ... I think Mike Y. is just saying that should be the golf professional and not the club manager.

Our structure here in the US is different than the UK ... club managers are generally more highly paid than your club secretaries [I think], even though I'm not sure how much different the job description really is.  And club professionals here are more responsible for the day-to-day operation of the course, than over there where many pros just own the shop and give lessons as an independent contractor.

I can tell you that a couple of my daily-fee courses have tried at various times to go without a real PGA pro in order to save money, and it's always been a disaster.  The professionals at other clubs are afraid to send their members over to play, because they don't know if the member will be treated decently or not.

Tom

Secretaries generally run the house, daily operations, societies and oversee the books.  They rarely have anything to do with the course.  The head greenkeeper in conjunction with the Greens Comm are in charge of the course.  Pros give lessons and operate a shop.  They may also help organizing big events.  You must also remember that there is a rich tradition of member's volunteering for social comm, comp comm etc.  I don't see why there has to be one person overseeing the house and the course.  And I don't see what the pro has to do with anything to do with the course or house unless of course he is nopt really a pro.

Ciao

[Norbert P]

eliminate the children's programs

That is a shortsighted elimination.