[Jay Flemma]

For those who have played both, which do you like better?  I like Redlands, but Matt Ward likes Lakota Canyon.  We agree to disagree, but I'm curious what the rest who have played both think.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

Let me say this -- when I see Redlands Mesa rated as the 17th best public course in the USA I have to shake my head in total bewilderment. I like the course but it's clearly overrated on a range of fronts.

I'd be happy to match up both courses - either through a hole-by-hole match play situation or by a grouping of the different par groupings for the holes you encounter.

Keep this in mind, from the Engh courses I have played it's fair to say each of his forthcoming new public efforts have gotten better and less predictable. Redlands Mesa was a break-out for Engh on the public side -- even though one can make a good argument that Red Hawk Ridge is just as good, if not better.

[Jay Flemma]

Matt, that's fine, I agree I dont think its numbeer 17 in the US, but lets see what everyone else who played both thinks.  I know that doesn't have to sway our opinion.  I'm just curious.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay, a bit of analysis from a match play perspective ...

Redland Mesa -- 7,007 Yds, 72.1 CR, 137 SL

1st Hole -- 419 (4) handicap 3
2nd Hole -- 429 (4) handicap 9
3rd Hole -- 197 (3) handicap 17
4th Hole -- 373 (4) handicap 15
5th Hole -- 575 (5) handicap 5
6th Hole -- 401 (4) handicap 7
7th Hole -- 466 (4) handicap 1
8th Hole -- 164 (3) handicap 13
9th Hole -- 389 (4) handicap 11

Lakota Canyon Ranch -- 7,111 Yds, 72.2 CR, 137 SL 

1st Hole -- 578 (5) handicap 6
2nd Hole -- 375 (4) handicap 10
3rd Hole -- 170 (3) handicap 18
4th Hole -- 557 (5) handicap 2
5th Hole -- 620 (5) handicap 4
6th Hole -- 395 (4) handicap 14
7th Hole -- 223 (3) handicap 16
8th Hole -- 398 (4) handicap 8
9th Hole -- 205 (3) handicap 12

On a straight match play analysis ...

1st Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up

2nd Hole -- All square

3rd Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up

4th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 2 up

5th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 2 up

6th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up

7th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up

8th Hole -- Even

9th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up


Back Nine ...

Redlands Mesa ...

10th Hole -- 527 (5) handicap 16
11th Hole -- 397 (4) handicap 10
12th Hole -- 151 (3) handicap 18
13th Hole -- 541 (5) handicap 12
14th Hole -- 370 (4) handicap 6
15th Hole -- 568 (5) handicap 8
16th Hole -- 412 (4) handicap 2
17th Hole -- 218 (3) handicap 14
18th Hole -- 410 (4) handicap 4


Lakota Canyon Ranch ...

10th Hole -- 397 (4) handicap 11
11th Hole -- 583 (5) handicap 5
12th Hole -- 473 (4) handicap 7
13th Hole -- 387 (4) handicap 9
14th Hole -- 360 (4) handicap 13
15th Hole -- 217 (3) handicap 15
16th Hole -- 418 (4) handicap 1
17th Hole -- 198 (3) handicap 17
18th Hole -- 557 (5) handicap 3


The back nine match ...

10th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 2 up

11th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 3 up

12th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 3 up

13th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 2 up

14th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 1 up

15th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 2 up

16th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 3 up

17th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 3 up

18th Hole -- Lakota Canyon Ranch 4 up

I can provide a split based on the different par groups to assess them from that side of things.

[cary lichtenstein]

I always enjoyed every round at both courses with some very special memorable holes on both and very different.

[Andy Troeger]

Kalen and I tried to get a group together to play both of these courses over a weekend a couple of years ago--thankfully we found one willing golfer to join us in Dan S!

I do like both courses a lot, but would still definitely go in favor of Lakota Canyon on the head to head matchup. Probably 6-4 out of ten rounds, although I could be talked in to 7-3. Lakota to me is much more scenic and I think the front nine at Lakota is really a gem.

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