Best set of Par 5's

[THuckaby2]

Many things struck me at Sand Hills, but one in particular is that this course just may have the best set of par 5's on earth.  You have:

#1 - an incredible opening hole, slapping you right in the face and saying welcome to Sand Hills, where bunkers are the hazards they should be.  Beyond that, the rolls in the fairway are mind-boggling; each of the drive and the 2nd require great thought and precision, and the green is wonderful.

#14 - only the greatest short par 5 this side of Augusta, and it may be better than #13 there.  Infinite possibilities and one of the world's great green sites.  Fairway rolls akin to National Golf Links, heaving one down into bowls if not done correctly.  Choices, choices, choices... One can just as easily have a 10 foot eagle putt (as Gene did with us) or make 5 great shots and come away with a 6 (as unlucky Mike Cirba did).  All of this is debatable, obviously, but this hole belongs in any conversation of the world's great par 5's period.

#16 - ok, so you had your fun on 14, and survived 15 (a world-class kick your butt long par 4) and you come to this monster, 612 yards of terror... but with genius also, in the fairway:  hit a big hard draw and you can get the Tom Paulian turbo boost down a big bowl to where you have 250 in... I never did it, but big-hitting Gene has many times, and I saw Mike Cirba do it in person... and from there the green is indeed reachable!  But for mortals, it's a tough drive - bite off as much as you can chew over a typical Sand Hills house-holding pit, then what to do with the 2nd?  Another horrific pit guards the left, but that's the short way to the hole... then the green has a great kick-in from the left feature, that isn't readily apparent from the fairway... Oh, nothing going on here at all.  I think testimony here is that I scored each of 4-5-6-7, and didn't hit that many bad shots in any of those, with the 4 being one of my life-time best birdies...

In any case, these are three GREAT holes.  So in a conversation of great sets of par 5's, I think Sand Hills belongs definitely, up there with Augusta, Pebble, any others one cares to name...

Whaddya think?

TH

ps - note #1 and #16 are described on the courses section by Ran way better than I do above...

[CHrisB]

Tom,
How do the par 5's at Sand Hills stack up to Muirfield's?

[THuckaby2]

Chris - that's a GREAT question.  Unfortunately its been many years since I've been to Muirfield, and my memory of individual holes there is sketchy.  I guess I'll get that re-jiggered in a month or so, eh?

I do know that Muirfield's par 5's are typically mentioned in this question.  I will simply say this:  Sand Hills' set has more topographical variety (ie huge amounts of up and down rolls and elevation change) and thus to me are more "spectacular."  But that doesn't mean "better" necessarily... Someone more familiar with Muirfield is gonna have to answer this one.  But darn good question in any case....

TH

[GeoffreyC]

Sand Hills has the best set of par 5's in the world.  

With all due respect to Muirfield, which I would have nominated last week, Sand Hills blows everything else away.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Given that we have a concurrent thread going on best set of par 3s, how about this question: Is it harder to design a great par 5, par 4 or par 3?

[THuckaby2]

GC - I kinda think so also.  Besides Muirfield though, what are some other contenders?  Perhaps Pebble Beach, especially if we call #2 a par4?  6/14/18 there are pretty damn strong.  But although it kills me to say given how special Pebble is to this California boy, in total Sand Hills beats Pebble...

My God is that a strong statement.  I just realized that myself.  But it's true...

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

I can't even think of a close contender to Sand Hills re: par fives....perhaps Plainfield?

Nah.  

[John Foley]

Ok, Mike & Tom, Time to be called on the carpet. Sand Hills, Cypress, Pine Valley and National. You get one choice to play one round.

The answer is and why?

(Nothing like puting guys on the spot!!)

Those of us who live vicariously though the golfing gods/doyens need to know!

[THuckaby2]

JF:  easy, Pine Valley.  It's the only one I haven't played yet!

Politician Huckaby

ps - I know that's not the answer your looking for...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom,

Consider Ridgewood (NJ)
            Plainfield
            NGLA

[THuckaby2]

Pat - in terms of par 5's, or one course to play?

I don't know Ridgewood nor Plainfield - please describe how they fit in here.  As for NGLA, I dig the par 5's there most definitely, but methinks they fall short of Sand Hills.  Very good call though, it's extremely close.

TH

[Jeff_Lewis]

LOVE National, but the par 5s are defininitely open to criticism. 9 is relatively benign interms of the demands of the layup and the green complex and 18 should have been built where the driving range is! Why the heck did he go up that hill when he could have gone around it along the water?

[Paul Turner]

I doubt Sand Hills's par 5s are more spectacular than Pennard's.

[THuckaby2]

I doubt Sand Hills's par 5s are more spectacular than Pennard's.

Hmmm... you have a point there definitely, Paul.  I've only seen Pennard in pictures but even there "spectacular" might not do them justice!

But are they better golf holes?

Sand Hills does have the advantage of being both "spectacular" and "great."  That is, the holes blow away the senses, but also challenge the mind and one's golf skill....

I'd love to go to Pennard and find out.  Some day....

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff Lewis,

There might have been a beach club there, ala The Creek.

Tom,

Ridgewood has a fabulous set of par 5's on its 27 Tillinghast holes.

Plainfield has a very good set of four par 5's as well, with some good cross bunkering

Both courses offer legitimate three shoters

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

I'd concur with Plainfield (as I mentioned above) and Ridgewood as having excellent three shotters.  They just aren't quite to the amazing level of the 3 three-shotters at Sand Hills.  

I don't know enough about Pennard to make an honest assessment, but Sand Hills is better than even Muirfield's, as superb as they are.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Pat, are you serious? I can't believe Nat'l ever had a beach club. Wow.

[ChipOat]

First, I think excellent (great?) par 5's are hardest to design -particularly for the 2nd shot.  Think about it - does any course have a par 5 that isn't sort of "dissed" by some?

Second, here are my votes (haven't played Sand Hills).

Pebble's got to be the best if #2 is a 4 par.  The second shot to #6, the approach to #14 and the strategic design of #18 (even with those stupid trees) are just the best in 1 place.

Pine Valley has to be a close 2nd.  #15 is the greatest par 5 on earth IMO and the first 2 shots on #7 demand execution or it's a par 6.

Merion's par 5's kind of get lost in the admiration for many of that course's par 4's, but they deserve more study.  #2 is one of the most superb strategic holes I've ever played and #4's wrong side/right side demands are significant.

Strangely, although Augusta's par 5's are clearly superb tournament holes, #'s 13 and 15 are both forced layup holes for me.  I got more playing pleasure out of #'s 2 and 8 by a mile.

Pete Dye's built a bunch of great par 5's - have to think further.

[Mike_Cirba]

What about PGA West?  

3 of the 4 are rather superb.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff Lewis,

On the 1928 map of NGLA, right below the flagpole, a beach house/club appears.

I would imagine that the same set of steps may have served the practice range and beach house/club, and that this may have been an impediment to constructing a golf hole.  I would imagine that the road that leads up behind the first tee to the pro shop area may have been a road servicing the beach house/club.

If it existed, I don't think it was as elaborate as The Creek's facility, which is substantial.

[THuckaby2]

All great thoughts, Chip.  And right on re the 2nd shot... that's another reason why the par 5 holes at Sand Hills are all so great - the 2nd shot on EACH is just absolutely fraught with decision and peril... it's uncanny.

Before I played Sand Hills, I would have put Pebble #1, for exactly the same reasons as you.  14 and 18 are incredible, and 6 is spectacular to the max.

But Sand Hills' set is better on the whole... it really is.... and like I say, wow is that one strong statement.  It's killing me as a Californian to admit this...

TH

[Rick]

I'll nominate #6, #7, #15 and #16 at Highland Links. I also like the par 5's at Wairakei... but there wasn't a hole on that course I didn't like!

Both are better than Pebble's IMO. Can't (and will never be able to) speak for the others noted in this post.

Rick (AKA Maddog)

P.S. how you doin' Tom?

[THuckaby2]

Maddog, what is up my friend?  Glad to see you here, that's for sure.

Those are both great calls, btw.  I've never been to either but from pics again "spectacular" comes to mind!

TH

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Funny that Doak did not have Sand Hills in his list of twenty.

I think Pebble, Blackwolf Run and Cape Breton Highlands come to mind.

[THuckaby2]

Given the publication date of Confidential Guide, I'd have to guess that he saw Sand Hills when it was VERY young, and/or did his lists of best this and best that before it was built.  There's no way he misses this otherwise... He also gives some very curious hole ratings to Sand Hills, including a !! to #6, which is a cool hole but just about the most mundane (if there is one) on the course.

He was just there at Archipalooza, the week before us.  I'd be very curious what he would change now, seeing it again.

TH