Bethpage Black: 18th Hole!

[Bruceski]

The final hole likely will be viewed with scorn by some here. The hole was altered more than any other. By lengthening this par 4 to 420 yds and changing the green complex significantly (a back bunker was eliminated entirely), most believe Rees Jones improved an already weak hole. Is there more that could have been done with this land? Could the routing been done differently? Essentially this is a downhill tee shot to a narrowing landing area (16 yds wide at about 280-310 yds from the tee). The flanking bunkers will likely see some action. The approach shot is very uphill, to a relatively flat green, and only the top of the flagstick will be visible. But there are obviously some pins (back right and front left) that could bring the greenside bunkers into play. I think that this hole will give players more trouble than we think. Especially after having played 15 through 17, the mental game may be a tad frayed. Enjoy the photos and enjoy the Open!



The tee shot:






Looking back towards the tee from the fairway:


The fairway landing area prior to the narrowing.


The left-side fairway bunker complex:






The right-side fairway bunker viewed from the left:


This guy kept finding the bunkers:  


The hill to the green is steep:




Another look back:


The greenside bunkers are very deep:








Another flat green, but with subtle breaks. No three-putts here, but birdied putts should be challenging. Will there be drama here?










This could be the Sunday pin's location -- tucked in the right nook with nearby bunker:


Let's end with some fun photos...

[TomSteenstrup]

I can't comment on the quality of the hole, but to me, this finisher is plain ugly to look at. I can't really specify why.
 

What will the typical club selection be? 3I/3W-7I? This hole should provide for the possibility of a two-shot swing, shouldn't it? I like that.

Tom

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Bruce,
Thanks for all the photos, they are appreciated.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Bruceski
Excellent job.

Do you think there is any chance a plackard will now be added for Joseph Burbeck?

[John Foley]

Bruceski,

Awesome job!!!! Now on the lsit of things to get to:

Play the Black!

[Jamie_Duffner]

First off, Brucseki this was great a real treat to "walk" the course.  I'd estimate you displayed about 350 pictures!  Thanks!

Now the 18th.  Prior to Ress renovation this was the weakest hole on the course.  Now it's the wekaest hole the course.  Actually, it's decent, but I can't get fired up over this hole.  The terrain is awkward, and short of plowing over the 4th green of the Red, a nice par three, I'm not sure what could have been done with the tee, short of some major earth moving.  

Tee shot is the straightest on the course and not easy, but the prudent player will take the pinched landing area out play by hitting a 3 wood or long iron.  What I would have preferred is a for the two bunker complexes to be more diagonal, consistent with the bunkering elsewhere.  Positioning the two clusters in a way to make the player think about the tee shot.  Now you've got something.

I sort of like the green complex, not overwhelmed by it.  There will be some difficult hole locations.  I do think there is some decent tilt from back right to front left and with very firm and fast conditions, there could be some interesting putts.  The bunkers are very deep and short siding the back right hole location is not good.

I will say this about 18, it will give someone an opportunity to make a birdie, but also the leader to make a bogey.  Given the difficulty of 15-16-17, I'm not sure another very difficult hole is what the course needs.

This will provide a very good ampitheater effect that will be neat to see.  

What else could have been done to the 18th, or better said, differently?  They could have moved the green up the hill some more, making it more like 435, but you lose the spectating area.  The rear bunkers, thankfully were removed, completely out of place and of little use.  I recall hearing that there was a plan to put a tee between the 17th tee and 1st green and play it as dogleg left, that might have been interesting, but would have made the area a bit too congested and tee shots might be dangerously close to those playing the 1st hole.  If you can look at the AOTD for the Black you might be able to see the logistics for such a tee.

My own personal idea would be to clear out the trees to the right of the green and move the green complex back about 20 yards and slightly (so as not to interfere with the 1st on the Red) to the right (see the 2nd picture).  Then the countours of the hill could be better used, rather than just pushing the green up against it.  Also, the bunkers to the left of the fairway, could be more diagonal and make the player think about trying to fly the right bunkers as you would probably run the fairway around the right cluster.  I think this could make for a very interesting hole.

[Jamie_Duffner]

Tom - I get the same feeling about 18.  You look at it and in the context of the rest of the course, you think something is not quite right, but can't put a finger on it.

Here's the problems that I can see.

1. The tee shot is dead straight - other than maybe 10, only one on the course and even 10 moves a little.
2. The bunkering is not consistent with the diagonal nature of the course, a fairway simply flanked by two large clusters of bunkers is not intersting.
3. The tee shot does not invoke much thought - hit it straight, no need to work the ball.

I'd love to see a Tom Doak get his hands on this hole and "Tillie-ize" it

[ChipOat]

Bruceski:

Awesome effort - you da man.  You've made the upcoming tournament so much less abstract for all of us as we watch.

Hope you enjoy it as much.

As to #18:  seems like Inverness and Olympic - kind of anticlimactic even if the tournament's on the line.  Give me a hole for a finisher that Shivas would like!

[Mike_Sweeney]

It is hard to see since Rees Jones removed the bunkers above the green, but it always looked on the "old hole" that the green complex was supposed to be 20-30 yards further up the hill, and that they changed it due to a logistics issue at the last minute. The "old hole" was really weak so it looked like there must have been a last minute change when the course was being built. Does anyone know?

[Pete Lavallee]

Bruceski;

Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this! I guess the only good thing about a six hour round at the Black is that it leaves plenty of time for photography!

On the 18th: Like the rest of the course, Rees spruced this hole up wihout changing the original design, I like that. If Tillie wanted a chance for birdie at the last, so be it. I'd rather see someone take the Open here, than watch people stumble all over themselves (like Lehman and Love at Oakland Hills) and give the Title away.

[Geoff Shackelford]

Bruceski,
Thanks for all the photos, up until now I was reminded of many things I like about Bethpage, 18 just is not one of those things. The aerial shot is shocking and I still contend they could put the scorer's tent out on the tip of one of those tear-drop capes in the right greenside bunker.

I have a question for any of the Bethpage students checking in here: in pictures pre-Reestoration, there was a "Principle's Nose" like bunker complex that appeared to be down the left center about 260-280 yards from today's tee shot. It looked like an add-on during the years, but in all honesty, it's placement appeared to create a more interesting decision-making situation, and if nothing else, at least a less garrish looking hazard than what exists today. Does anyone know the history of this bunker complex?
Geoff

[Dan Kelly]

Geoff Shackelford --

And I have a question for you: What do
you think of the competition magazine's
piece on Burbeck and Tillie?

What do you make of the whole debate?

[Jamie_Duffner]

Geoff - I don't know the exact history of the bubnker complexes.  From ground level they are sort of neat, but from the air they look a bit contrived and out of place.  Re-configuring the layout of these complexes could really improve this hole.

Mike - I have always heard that the green used to be way up the hill where there are now a cluster of three flag poles. You can still see them in the pictures.  That would help explain the mammoth bunkers that ran up the hill.  I don't know if it's true though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bruceski,

You provided a wonderful view of the golf course, from many angles.  Thanks for your efforts.

The pictures made me want to play the course as soon as possible, rather than nitpick at random features, but I guess it depends on one's perspective, positive or negative.
As I said, I never played there, but I want to, right after the OPEN.

Thanks again.

Since you know how to take good pictures and post them on this site, any interest in doing the same thing at NGLA ?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Bruceski -

Thanks for the hard work and photos - I'd like to see this become a tradition for our national championship on this site...

Whose up for sending him to Olympia Fields next year?

[Andy Hodson]

Bruceski

Thanks for all the great photos. I feel like now I know the golf course so much better than I would just looking at the preview magazines. Can't wait to see it on the tube, and how the pros do.

Great effort

[Lance]

Having lived near Bethpage for 30 years I have heard time & again that the "original" green on this hole was above it's present location, higher on the hill, above the 2 traps which were removed from the rear of the present greensite. Supposedly the green was moved lower because shots into the green that went long would run up against the clubhouse area. The two traps which were removed from behind the present greensite never made any sense at all leading me to believe the story about the original greensite. If one imagines the green at the top of the hill then it would have been a hole of difficulty worthy of the closing hole on this course. Can anyone verify this long standing rumour??
           Last year I had an interesting converstion with a 70+ year old individual whose family had owned a vast farm in the Bethpage/Plainview area adjacent to the state park>this gentlemen had been playing the Black course since he was a boy, and he swore to me that the original layout featured a stream which ran across #'s 15, 16 & 2! He said that on #2 the stream ran down the rightside of the fairway making the teeshot much more difficult>this stream then  ran across #17 of the green course and emptied into the present pond between #'s 17 & 4 on the green course. can anyone verify this? I suppose the water table has dropped over the years and the stream has been lost. Lance

[Rick Shefchik]

Love the photos -- disappointed by the hole.

No one in the field is going to hit driver here, unless they can't hit their driver 280 yards. Why risk trying to hit a straight drive 310 yards for what would probably end up being an awkward sand wedge when you can lay up off the tee and still hit a 9-iron or wedge into a flat green?

I think this would have been a more interesting hole if they'd left the tee where it was, or even moved it up a little. Give the pros some incentive to gamble; as it is, even the guys who are two shots behind on Sunday are going to lay up here.

[GeoffreyC]

Lance-  

The 1935 aerial of Bethpage in ROTL book shows the 18th green in its current location.

In 1969 when I first played the Black, there was a stream bed (no water) running across the fairway.  If I'm not mistaken it was removed only recently perhaps by Rees.  It was never really in play.  I never saw any evidence for the stream along the right side of #2.  

[Pete Lavallee]

I would love to see the 1935 aerial of the Black. Any chance of someone posting it?

[GeoffreyC]

Pete, I don't have a scanner.  It is in the bethpage chapter of "Reminiscence of the Links", a collection of Tillinghast writing put together by Rick Woolfe.

If someone can scan it I will be happy to post it.

[newtoneagle]

I don't think it is a bad hole, but it seems like a re-design that lacked imagination. Just pinch the green and pinch the driving zone seems to have been the plan, a little heavy-handed, would have liked to have seen more creativity. It is not without visual appeal though, although the fairway bunker clusters are clearly Rees' style, not AWT.

Thanks for the photos, this has been a real treat. You deserve a GCA award statuette for this.

[Matt_Ward]

The 18th green was never behind the two rear bunkers that were removed through the work of Rees Jones.

That rumor has been around for years and until recent times I always thought that was where the green was at one time. It was never there. I can't imagine that Tillie really had a hand in the placement of the two former rear bunkers. They were nothing more than two huge sand pits and I can count on one hand the number of golfers I ever saw hit a shot into either of them.

The problem with the 18th hole is that the putting surface for the most part is a flat disc. Yes, there's some movement but it's major stretch to say that a player will three-putt to lose the championshp. If ever a hole cried out for changes to the green the 18th at the Black is one of them. Rees cut into the right side to bring the bunker on that side more into play. No doubt the pin will be cut in that vicinity for probably two rounds of the event. Still, the hole could have been spiced up with a green that maximized absolute pinpoint accuracy.

The added distance to the hole is really irrelevant to what the world's best will do. In most situations you will find players hitting 3-wood and 1-irons or it equivalent and avoid the clustering of bunkers which borders on overkill. And, once players get comfortable with the yardage the somewhat blind pin spot will be nothing more than a formality unless Open pressure forces them to gag a bit.

The Black shares one similarity with Cypress Point -- they both have lackluster closers. It's too bad the closing hole for the event could not have played on the adjacent Red Course. There the players must shape shots and the green has some serious movement. Too bad.

I do agree you will see two-shot swings on the hole because birdie is definitely there for the taking to the player who finds the fairway. Although Rees has said otherwise I see no reason why any top player (Woods, Mickelson, Duval, etc.) will ever pull the driver because there's really no need or gain to be made.

Bruceski: Many thanks for your effort in giving all on GCA the opportunity to really see the Black. You've done a wonderful service -- now sit back and enjoy that cold brew before the Open starts!

[Paul Richards]

It certainly is visually intimidating.

An interesting finishing hole?  Yes.

A great hole?  No.

But I think it could make for a great finish to the Open!

[Tom_Egan]

Bruceski --

What a great treat you have provided for all GCA'ers!!  I know it was a labor of love, but tons of work and time went into the effort.  We're in your debt.

If this doesn't merit a battlefield promotion to Doyenhood, nothing does!