The "New" Bayonet GC - Fort Ord, CA

[Tom Huckaby]

I played Bayonet yesterday - 2nd day the entire "new" course has been open.  Since many have played the renovated front nine (it's been open for awhile now), I will not comment on that too much.  Let's just do good news, bad news, as I see it about the course, with some details about the back nine.  Sadly I have no pictures - that's not my thing - but maybe others can fill some in.

Good news: 

a) conditions are very nice.  Fairways run fast, greens are perfect and smooth and very firm, at least for now. A question remains on how one can improve drainage that was perfect already (they stated that improving drainage was one of the goals of the renovation, and it was indeed the best-draining course in all of NorCal before) but it looked as if they didn't screw this up at least.

b) #10 green is pretty cool and that hole is improved -they moved  the entire green about 50 yards left of where it used to be, creating a gentle dogleg out of what used to be a pretty boring straight hole.

c) damn near every green has had SIGNIFICANT internal contour added to it.  On a few holes, this works.  On most, it's complete overkill.  That is, a green with elephat humps in it is fine on a short hole, appears odd on a 480 yard par four. There's way too much of the latter.


Bad news:

a) it now costs $160 to play there on weekends.  This is now the #1 champ for overpriced, not worth it golf in the greater Bay Area...and as you know there's a lot of competition for that.

b) the overdone fairway bunkering to be seen on the front nine just continues on the back.  On damn near every hole, where there used to be rough and/or smaller trees,  there is typically now a penal deep bunker complex.

c) they completely butchered the 11th, to the extent that I was literally speechless looking at it.  OK so the old 11th might not have been everyone's cup of tea, is it pretty much required a tee shot bombed over trees, but it was darn unique, one that most with any sense of humor looked forward to playing. Now, they have moved the tee - and fairway - about 50-60 yards LEFT of where it used to be - the tee is now not that far from the 1st green - with a new fairway created over there to the left (where there used to be just forest).  The result is a somewhat sharp dog leg left, but with a straight out tee shot with ZERO options available - just hit it straight, find the fairway.  The green is in the same place as it was before, but has had significant contour added - this is actually pretty cool, as the hole is only 355 max.  In fact it may be the best green on the course.  But the tee shot is SO ruined that the overall effect of the hole is weeping, for us old-timers anyway.

d) #12 had been already butchered before; now they just took it to the logical extreme, adding a penal bunker complex in the left corner of the dogleg.  This hole is very very difficult still, but now not even a shadow of its former uniqueness.  The very soul of golf does continue to shriek.

e) The rest of the back nine is not all that changed, although just assume fairway bunkers are added on every hole.  #17 par three has been moved 50 yards left of where it was - the entire hole - so now it fits nicely in the crux of the dogleg of #7 Blackhorse - god help the golfers on 17 green when tee shots on 7 Blackhorse are hit.  They have planted some small protecting pine trees, but in the next decade while those grow, hardhats should be issued on 17 Bayonet green.

f) Did I mention it was overpriced?  In the end, it's a very very very tough golf course, a lot more "fair" than it once was, and it will offer a fine test for pros and top amateurs.  But they are trying to repackage this as a resort - a hotel is going in - and thus I don't get the point of what they've done.  In the end, I used to love this course because it was so uniquely brutal (due to the incredibly over-forestation)... now, it's brutal again all right, it's just not very unique.  I won't seek it out.

Note I saw a lot of Blackhorse also, and it's an odd thing there.... nearly all of the bunkers on  Blackhorse have the rouugh, "frilly" edges - on Bayonet they are all cut unifornly (think ovals and circles).  They seem to have purposefully set out to make the two courses very different in bunker styles.  It struck me as strange...

I'll play Blackhorse in the spring, if not sooner, I'm sure.  Hopefully they didn't kill the soul of that course... but they surely did on Bayonet.

TH

[David Stamm]

  I won't seek it out.

 

This, coming from Tom, speaks volumes. Tom, how wuld you compare what you saw to what Bates did up the road at San Juan Oaks. Better? Worse? And why?

[PThomas]

sounds like the course will NOT make a must play list Huck

thanks for your thoughts

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

   That's too bad, I know how you used to feel about that place. The one thing it really had going for it was that it was reasonably priced for your market and now that is gone.

[Kalen Braley]

So Tom,

I know I asked you this offline, but if we're just talking courses, assumming your the Donald and the price tag doesn't matter, where do you put it?

Here's a proposed ranking of publics only in the area.

1)  Pebble
2)  Spyglass
3)  Spanish
4)  Poppy
5)  Old Del Monte
6)  Pacific Grove
7)  Monterey Pines.

I'm not sure whats public and private over in the Carmel Highlands area so for simplicity I've left those out.

[Tom Huckaby]

San Juan Oaks is a MUCH better course than the new Bayonet... it's prettier, more interesting, more fun, and if test is what it's all about for a golfer, then from the back tees it's all you need there also.  The only thing Bayonet would have going for it MIGHT be conditions.  SJO does get sloppy at times.

And yes, a big reason for going to Bayonet used to be that one got a test of golf, good conditions, at a pretty good price.  The last part of that is now gone, big time.  And in terms of test of golf, well that remains... just not in any really different way than any other course.  So that too is not worth seeking out, for me anyway.

As for ranking the Monterey area publics, that's close enough for me, Kalen.  I'd insert Bayonet in there somewhere after #4, hell conditions alone might make it fun for some people.  Also Laguna Seca needs a place in there.  Both courses at Rancho Canada likely bring up the rear.

TH

[Tom Naccarato]

Tom,
I pretty much agree with you on everything your saying regarding Bayonet. What a really great piece of sandy scrub property, which is in fact inland dunes not far from Sand City. A really great golf course too--or at least it used to be, that back nine especially.

I'm glad to see the back nine before they changed it, because Bayonet is about as solid golf as one could hope for--especially that back nine. I hate the fact that they have changed what didn't need to be changed. There really isn't any interesting, thought provoking strategies achieved with the new bunkering. It's all just so .....commercial.

While the conditioning of the courses is probably far better then one could have ever dreamed who frequent the course on a regular basis, I can't help but to think that they'll eventually regret it--especially at those prices. There are grand plans for that place--a huge resort. I believe it was a Fairmount Hotel if I'm not correct.

Hole #7 From the Tee

Hole #6 Back Tee

Hole #6 Front Tee

Hole #5 From the Tee

A hole on Black Horse, which is directly in back of #4 Tee on Bayonet

#4 Up Close(r)

#4 Tee

#3 From the Fairway

[Tom Huckaby]

Tommy:

Are those pics from Bayonet?  If so, from when?  Man I just played there yesterday and I don't recognize a singloe hole from your pics.... except maybe one of #2.... man they have done a LOT more tree clearing since those pics were taken....

In any case, you're right about a hotel going in - nor sure which chain, but it's gonna go where the old driving range was... also throughout the course land has been cleared and a lot already graded for more houses to go in.

This course used to really have a soul.  The back nine particularly was as funky and soulful as California gets.  Now?  The only word I can think of is antiseptic.

[Tom Naccarato]

Tom, they were taken in the first of March, Friday, March 7th to be precise and I'm sorry they are out of order.

I'll label the hole pictures.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom, they were taken in the first of March, Friday, March 7th to be precise and I'm sorry they are out of order.

I'll label the hole pictures.

No hassles, thanks Tommy.  Man it looks REALLY REALLY different now... and I have to believe at least one of those pics is from the Blackhorse course....

TH

[Tom Naccarato]

I had to play the holes out in my mind--thats how unmemorable some of them have become now--where the back nine is indelible in my mind! Go figure!

Yes, there is one that is from Black Horse.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tommy:

WOW!  Even labelling the holes as you did, I still can't make heads or tails of it as they have also re-done the routing (I think) from when you are there.  But the main thing is they have done so much tree removal (primarily to clear land for future houses, but also to clear views) that it's just a completely different golf course now from what your pictures show.  For example, nearly all the trees on both sides of #4 (201 par three from tips) are now GONE.  To the right of that hole - the site of the former #9 fairway years ago - is all graded dirt, waiting to be filled with houses.

The rest I simply can't place, they are so different now.  Other than yes that is a Blackhorse hole, the one one sees from the back tees of the current #5... in fact the tees of these two holes kind or overlap.

In any event, you nailed it.  There is just not all that much that is memorable about the course - then or now.  And it's sad, because at one point in time this course was as memorable as any on the Peninsula.  And I do mean ANY.  Of it might have been memorable in terms of hatred for most.. but memorable it was.  Now? 

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom H. and Tom N.,

The honchos running Bayonet and Black Horse seem to think that they have something better than they do. It is my understanding that the terms and conditions of their and the City of Seaside's contract with the US Govt.
was that military personnel would have certain discounts available. The company in charge of the facility is  now trying to charge higher prices and curtail the servicemen from playing Fridays and the weekend.

This is a big mistake. The corruption that went on with the takeover of the Fort Ord base is like something out of a third world country, or should I say, Chicago?

I cannot say I would like to spend time in an hotel in Seaside, no matter what the grade.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob:

That is very sad re the removal of military discounts, but not surprising.

Also yes, the hotel there is going to have very stiff competition quite nearby.  It all makes little sense to me.

TH

[Mike Golden]

Like Huck, I have no clue what golf course Tommy's photos are from and I've played Bayonet at least 20 times in my life.  It looks to me like they've destroyed the history of the course in one fell swoop.  There were some really good golf holes on the front,  particularly #5 (or was it #6?), which was a brute of a par 4 with a long approach shot to an elevated green with lots of movement in the green.  One of my career highlights was a birdie the last time I played it a few years ago.

It's clear to me that I would  never want to play either of the 'new' Bayonet courses again, Poppy Hills is much better value and San Juan Oaks (which I really like) isn't all that far away.

What a pity.  It used to be that Huck would rue the loss of the thick trees lining all the fairways, little did we know the golf course would be destroyed for the sake of upscale resort golf.

[Dan King]

Back in the day, as a NASA employee, we used to play either course for $6. I thought at the time Bayonet was worth it and Black Horse wasn't. Bayonet then was brutal, with the tree line being a penalty stroke with best case you getting to pitch out sideways (more often than not from your knees.) Combat corner (10-11-12) were brutal holes.

There is no way I go back there for $160, or $120, or $80, maybe $40.

Cheers,
Dan King

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
 --Warren Buffett

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike:  the old #6 is now #9, but with the fairway moved 100 yards or so to the left.. creating a dog leg right, in which they have also inserted penal bunkers on the left side, a new small grove of pine trees on the right (in the corner).  So what used to be a brutal straight a 460 or so yard uphill hole is now a brutal pinched in dog leg.  Note what used to be the #6 fairway is now all dirt, graded for houses.  Sigh.....

Dan:  I have posted in here way too many times over the years about my love for the brutal, totally unfair but totally unique old Bayonet.  You summed it up correctly.  Back way way back I tended to get discounts similar to you (friend was a military son) and so that might explain some of my bias... it was CHEAP!  But I also did just love how unique it was.  Combat corner was aptly named (though it was 11-12-13)  ... and getting through that is less than 15 shots was also always damn fine golf.

It still is, I guess.  It's just very little fun any more.

TH

[Lou_Duran]

Thomas,

Thou protesteth too loudly.  The completed nine that we played during the KP was very enjoyable and, in my humble opinion, a far superior version of what was there before.  Regarding the new fee, you are absolutely right.  It will be interesting to see whether they can make it hold.  There's no excuse for "them" to be forcing out golfers with military credentials.  Hopefully our benevolent government will do something positive about it.

Bob Huntley,

The unfortunate thing is that the type of horse-trading between the public and private sectors taking place at Fort Ord is the rule rather than the exception.  We are seeing some very strange stuff here in SoCal with El Toro.  And though the former Carswell AFB in Fort Worth now has a wonderful course (Hawks Creek) on what was formerly a non-descript base course, the fees are up and the military golfers have also been squeezed.

I don't know if it is corruption, but there is something inherently at odds when the public sector cozies to the private sector.  My preference would be for the federal government to sell outright the decommissioned bases for market value subject to whatever encumbrances there are on the properties.

[Tom Huckaby]

Lou:

The front nine you played in spring is NOT what is there now.  I'd be interested if your take would be the same if you played it again.  But we discussed it before; my take does remain difficult for most to accept.  It just does come down to uniqueness.  What was once there was completely unique to the world of golf.  What it's become over the years just tore all of that away, little by little, until what's there now might as well be anywhere.

I found it to be enjoyable, for sure - because ALL golf is enjoyable to me.  But I will not actively seek out that course again.  And those who know me know how strong a statement that is... hell I've played THE RANCH three times and will again without a doubt.  Bayonet now just plain pisses me off.

TH

[Nick Church]

I think some of you know how soft I can be for dear ol' Fort Ord.  It was absolutely the best station the Army ever assigned to my father.  It also was the place I was introduced to & fell in love with golf.  I lived in the neighborhood adjacent to Combat Corner.  I walked past & through the courses on the way to the middle school that overlooks #9 on Blackhorse.

Although I'm trying to remain optimistic, I am disheartened that it's possible the courses have lost their character.  I was excited when the renovation work was first announced, hopeful that proper care & investment would enhance the courses.

Thanks for the updates.  When I return to Monterey someday, I will still enjoy a round or two at Ord.

[Tom Huckaby]

I think some of you know how soft I can be for dear ol' Fort Ord.  It was absolutely the best station the Army ever assigned to my father.  It also was the place I was introduced to & fell in love with golf.  I lived in the neighborhood adjacent to Combat Corner.  I walked past & through the courses on the way to the middle school that overlooks #9 on Blackhorse.

Although I'm trying to remain optimistic, I am disheartened that it's possible the courses have lost their character.  I was excited when the renovation work was first announced, hopeful that proper care & investment would enhance the courses.

Thanks for the updates.  When I return to Monterey someday, I will still enjoy a round or two at Ord.

Nick:

Bayonet has lost its character like I have lost my once-slim body shape.

Those who know me know what I just said.

It's sad.  Very, very sad... and most especially for those of us who played it way back when.

Or at least I think so.  However, conditions are indeed improved.  There are a hell of a lot more bunkers.  Views of the far-off sea are improved due to the tree clearing.  If you can focus on these things and not what once was, well then you may enjoy it.  Lou seemed to like it, and I can't imagine he's alone in this.   I just couldn't get past the feelings of what once was compared to what is.....  But I am turning into a crotchety old curmudgeon.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Tom makes some good allusions to what I was wondering.

If you've never seen the place, never played it, what would a first time reaction be?  I do wonder...but don't have $160 worth of wonderment.  If it was half that, I may be tempted to give it a shot.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom makes some good allusions to what I was wondering.

If you've never seen the place, never played it, what would a first time reaction be?  I do wonder...but don't have $160 worth of wonderment.  If it was half that, I may be tempted to give it a shot.

My feeling is only those for whom money really is no object will get past the price tag.  It's just not worth $160 to play.

But if one can put that aside - and does have no previous knowledge of the course - then I do think it may be seen as enjoyable, at least for those who enjoy a very stern test, and wildly contoured greens.

TH

[Mike Golden]

again, based on the photos and the way the golf course has changed, they should have also changed the names of the courses.  How about the Seaside Links at Fort Ord-The Pretentious and Expensive Champions and Seaside Links at Fort Ord-Almost as Pretentious but no Less Expensive?

That sounds a lot better than Bayonet and Black Horse anyway now that the history of the golf courses have been rewritten.  I wonder if they still credit the original designer (he was a general in the Army, allegedly) or have redone that as well.

I just can't believe the changes as Huck describes them and Tommy's camera captured them, all the character is gone, the impossible tee shot on #2, the 600 yard par 5, the brutish #6 and probably the quirky uphill #3 as well.  Bye Bye Bayonet, I knew yee when...

[Richard Hetzel]

I'll still pay $160 ONCE, because I have always wanted to play there. Since I never played the original I won't know any different!

PS:  They allow "jeans" on the course?