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Kyle Henderson

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Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2008, 11:13:52 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on December 18, 2008, 07:47:23 PM
Patrick:

Another of my favorite features is the diagonal line of mounds which you drive over on #7.  The first three of them are man-made, to tie into some other dunes off to the right side of the hole.  Jim said he was sick of building bunkers and just wanted to do something different ... and with the daunting second shot ahead, bunkers would have forced a lay-up shot if you found them.  So we did it bunkerless instead, and I love how it works.

Mr. Doak,
I noticed a number of naturalistic shelves during the climb to the 7th green that seem a little too convenient and offer pretty decent (flat) lies for those that miss short with their approaches. Did your crew build these or was nature really that deliberate?
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2008, 12:20:45 PM »
Kyle:

Once you start up the hill toward #7 green, pretty much all the contours are artificial.  Originally the area you speak of was a straight 2:1 slope covered in gorse, and the site of the green was a narrow dune ridge about 20 feet higher than the current green.  However, the bunker at the back left of the green and the land below it are pretty much at their original grade; that's where we tied in the contours on the back side.
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Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2008, 01:15:46 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on December 19, 2008, 07:08:09 AM
Michael:

The first hole is a double-plateau green, similar to the first at Yeamans Hall or 11th at National.

The 13th is "Leven".

We don't have names for 14 and 15 yet.  Fourteen is a medium-short, uphill par-4 playing to a green set against the big dune in the center of the property.  It might be called "Maiden" after that big dune, but it's really not a "template" hole at all.

The fifteenth is a big par five from the big inland dune to a green overlooking the ocean.  Again, it's not really a template hole.  A ton of names have been suggested for this one, but we haven't decided yet.

P.S.  We are thinking leaning toward calling #17 "Littlestone" since there is no "channel" on the hole in Bandon, and since Macdonald's original idea for the hole came from the 16th at Littlestone, England.

Tom,

Thx.  Way cool.  I gather the 7th "ocean" is also a name unique to this project?  I don't recall reading about any MacRaynor "ocean" holes.

Idea for name of #15......

Westward Ho

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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2008, 02:02:06 PM »
Michael D:

Many times Macdonald named holes reflecting to the property feature on a course or in a case like Sleepy Hollow, he named the holes using people and incidents from the Legend of Sleepy Hollow itself -  (Ichabod, Headless Horseman, Pumpkin, Bram Bones, etc)

At St Louis (a Macdonald course) there are names that a refer to local features - there are 5 par-3's and one was named Crater because it was a hole played over sort of deep crevice. Some of the holes names at St Louis: Log Cabin - Blind - Ladue (the name of the town they're in)

So, historically, a hole doesn't need have to be named to reflect the hole design and strategy (gee, I can't even get myself to type the word "template" - good for me  :P
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2008, 02:05:27 PM »
Actually, the 8th hole at Lido was a Biarritz that played right along the beach - it was named "Ocean"

I'd have to check but just a few pure Raynor courses actually had "named" holes.
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2008, 05:25:21 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on December 15, 2008, 10:09:48 PM

After 2013, when the Walker Cup is held at NGLA, the golfing Universe will know who Macdonald was and what he represented in GCA.

Patrick, I'd wager against your NYcentric prediction:

For the week ending Sept. 9, 2007 the Nielsen ratings for the Giants v. Cowboys game were 11.6 (household rating) and 10.7 (Men 18-49).  By comparison the Walker Cup ratings were 0.3 and 0.1, a notch below U. S. Gymnastics at 0.9 and 0.4.

Quick, who was named women's best all around at the gymnastics meet?

Mike

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2007/09/chart_national_sports_ratings.php
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 05:31:01 PM by Michael_Hendren »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2008, 09:03:37 PM »
Mike,

On a cold Sunday night in December what else was there to watch.

The golfing world will watch the Walker Cup.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2008, 09:26:09 AM »
The great thing about Old Macdonald is that five years after it opens, more different people will have played Old Mac, than have ever played National (as the guest of a member).
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Peter Pallotta

Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald New
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2008, 10:13:10 AM »
That's a neat angle, Tom - that the fundamental principles of good golf course architecture that Macdonald was so keen to promote in America almost 100 years ago will soon be made consciously manifest and truly public there at Oregon's seaside, and with credit duly given. (I mean, even a man like Mr. Macdonald wouldn't have named a golf course after himself!)

Must be a good feeling

Peter
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 12:27:46 PM by Peter Pallotta »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Irony of Old Macdonald
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2008, 10:15:14 AM »
Tom Doak,

Yes, but, you could say the same thing about Bethpage and Winged Foot, Baltusrol and Ridgewood combined. ;D

Pinehurst and Plainfield and Seminole. ;D

Old Macdonald's success has to be good for all of golf, Macdonald, Raynor, Banks, Doak and NGLA.

I hope it exceeds everyone's expectations by multiples.
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