Changes at Bandon Dunes from original layout

[Anthony Gray]

  Hole 1- I prefer the high green. I assume the low green is to keep players from the buildings on the right and to get them closer to the 2nd tee box. Correct?

   Hole 2- I like the high tee. Why do they not use it?

   Holes 13 and 14- Why the gorse removal? I liked it. It framed the holes.
It made the 14th green like an amphitheater, very scotish. It does not have the same persona now.

   Anthony

[Joe Bentham]

Anthony
The low green on 1 doesn't really exist anymore, hasn't for two seasons.  Beach grass has been planted across the 'new' fairway.  It was an experiment that lasted about a month.  The thought behind it was keeping balls from hitting the buildings.  But balls still hit the buildings and the hole wasn't nearly as good.

The high tee on 2 is a good shot, not exactly sure why the change was made, maybe because into the summer wind it was tougher then they wanted.  The high tees aren't really maintained anymore, mowed occasionally but not kept in 'in play' shape at all.

As for the gorse between 13 and 14, and the rest of the gorse on the course for that matter, it wasn't there in '99.  Most of it is 5-6 year growth and removing it isn't changing the course at all, its restoring it to its original form.

[Anthony Gray]

   Joe,

  14 green is so much better with the gorse on the hill. Did you say hello to jp for me? Without the gorse between 13 and 14 you can come to the 14th green from the 13th fairway. I saw it done. Aesthetically the gorse is better.
on the website it has what the 14th used to look like.

   Anthony

[Russell Lo]

I was told by a caddie that the gorse between 13 and 14 was going to be removed to accomodate TV towers for the Curtis Cup. Since the CC was held at PD I'm not sure what he was smoking.

He also said that there was quite a bit of gorse left of the 17th hole so an ambitious drive could clear the ridge, but too far, and too far left of the green would result in a prickly situation.

[Jed Peters]

I think that the worst change was the widening of 17 on the left side.

Now you can hit it over there and still have a recovery to the green.

Didn't seem like it used to be like that.

[Kyle Henderson]

I thought they did a good job with the beach grasses behind the 14th green. I didn't realize it used to be covered with gorse until I went back and looked at Ran's profile. However, both sides of 13 appear quite naked and unnatural at present. Ditto 1 & 9, the periphery of 3,  between 7 & 8, and some portions of 10 & 18.

Generally speaking, the course could stand for a sprinkling of finish work on at least half of the holes, especially given the immaculate presentation of its siblings.

[Will MacEwen]

I think that the worst change was the widening of 17 on the left side.

Now you can hit it over there and still have a recovery to the green.

Didn't seem like it used to be like that.

Agreed - still one of my favourite holes, but much less demanding now.  They also moved the tees up last time I played, which also took some of the teeth out.

[Joe Bentham]

I wasn't commenting on the architectural merits of the gorse, only the fact that removing said gorse isn't a CHANGE, its a restoration.
David Kidd didn't design 14 with gorse around the green complex.  The gorse grew back after the course opened.  Bandon Dunes was gorse less in its original form.

[JohnV]

As I recall, the control of gorse was one of the things that was agreed to when the permission to build was given.  Therefore, they have to go back in and remove it when it gets too heavy.

As for changes, I agree that the changes on 17 aren't good.  I'm not a fan of how they expanded the 16th fairway.

[Jim Adkisson]

The Gorse removal that I find most dissapointing, is between the walk from 14 green to 15 tee and the 16th fairway...now you see the 16th hole instead of having the hole dramatically revealed when you leave the 15th green...this doesn't have anything to do with how any hole is played, but it certainly affects the aesthetic value of the dramatic beauty of the 16th hole.

[Joe Bentham]

They added bunkers to the left side of 17 to keep players from hitting it way out there, trying to get players to hit it in the fairway.  
The Extension of 16 fairway made the summer tee shot there much more playable.  And I don't think anyone playing for score wants the blind shot into 16 green from done there anyway.  
Most of the gorse removal this winter is being done on the back nine, and it has reopened the views.  From 11 tee the view has been restored.  You can see most of the back nine, all the way out to 17 tee, and the ocean beyond.  
As I've said on here numerous times, non of the gorse re removal hurts the course from the standpoint of its ability to challenge good players.  Ripping gorse out form the edges of huge fairways doesn't make it easier for good players.  I might even make the argument that it make it harder for good players.

[Anthony Gray]

  I just do not see how gorse can grow that fast and was not there to start with around the 14th green.


  When I last played it the bank was bald and I hated it. Does it have other flora there now?

 Did enybody check out the photo on the BD web site that shows all the gorse aroun the green.

  My question is why was it removed? Is there something bad about it beiing there that affects the hole negatively?

  Anthony

[Will MacEwen]

They added bunkers to the left side of 17 to keep players from hitting it way out there, trying to get players to hit it in the fairway.  
The Extension of 16 fairway made the summer tee shot there much more playable.  And I don't think anyone playing for score wants the blind shot into 16 green from done there anyway.  
Most of the gorse removal this winter is being done on the back nine, and it has reopened the views.  From 11 tee the view has been restored.  You can see most of the back nine, all the way out to 17 tee, and the ocean beyond.  
As I've said on here numerous times, non of the gorse re removal hurts the course from the standpoint of its ability to challenge good players.  Ripping gorse out form the edges of huge fairways doesn't make it easier for good players.  I might even make the argument that it make it harder for good players.

When did they add the bunkers on 17?

[Eric Johnson]

"I just do not see how gorse can grow that fast and was not there to start with around the 14th green."

Anthony,
Trust me, gorse can and does grow that fast (if not faster).


"When did they add the bunkers on 17?"

Will MacEwen,
2001.

[Sean Leary]

As I recall, the control of gorse was one of the things that was agreed to when the permission to build was given.  Therefore, they have to go back in and remove it when it gets too heavy.

As for changes, I agree that the changes on 17 aren't good.  I'm not a fan of how they expanded the 16th fairway.

JVB,

Funny,  I think 16 is signficantly better now....

[Tim Pitner]

As I recall, the control of gorse was one of the things that was agreed to when the permission to build was given.  Therefore, they have to go back in and remove it when it gets too heavy.

As for changes, I agree that the changes on 17 aren't good.  I'm not a fan of how they expanded the 16th fairway.

JVB,

Funny,  I think 16 is signficantly better now....

I agree, and the little pitch into #16 green from a tight fairway lie is no easy shot (for me, at least). 

[Will MacEwen]

As I recall, the control of gorse was one of the things that was agreed to when the permission to build was given.  Therefore, they have to go back in and remove it when it gets too heavy.

As for changes, I agree that the changes on 17 aren't good.  I'm not a fan of how they expanded the 16th fairway.

JVB,

Funny,  I think 16 is signficantly better now....

What was the expansion?

[Sean Leary]

Will,

The whole left fairway, basically. it used to be just a sliver....Downwind there was nowhere to hit it.

Anyone ever play the hole from the original way back tee. Blind tee shot....It was wild...

[Anthony Gray]

  It seems that several changes have been made to the course. Are there others that you would like to see?

  Anthony

[Scott Weersing]

There also used to be small pine trees in the middle of no. 5 fairway. The trees had tall grasses all around them. It made the tee shot a little more difficult.

The trees were cut down several years ago and now the mounds are just covered with grass. You can still lose a drive into the weeds. They also cut back the gorse on the right side of no. 5. Again, it was creeping in.

What about all the gorse between no. 7 and no. 8? There was a time when it was all gorse between the two holes.

There used to be lots of trees to the right on no. 8 green but no more.

The removal of gorse makes the course seem more links like. Would I want the gorse to come back?

This topic has been discussed before and one reason to the changes is to make the course more playable and to keep lost balls to a minimum.

[Michael Robin]

First time I played BD was with an Asst Pro from my club, he suggested we play from all the way back. We had to ask for a special card. Probably the hardest course I've ever played. 2 was a 3wood, 3rd fairway was almost unreachable from the tee into the wind, 4th tee was back and to the right about 30 yards from the current tee which basically left you a blind second shot, 5 & 6 were brutal, 11 was 460 plus uphill into the wind which made it play about 550yards(I think I hit Driver-3wood-9iron), 12 was a 3wood into the 18th handicap hole, 15 was a 3wood (I remember hitting 3 wood into all of the par 3s that day), the 16th tee was on the other side of the 15th green so you actually had to drive over the 15th green in route to the fairway which also meant that you were just trying to get it over the crevice to make the right fairway leaving you a blind 2nd with a long iron. I walked off with 85 and won money. The Asst had to make a long putt on 18 to break 90. Never got to play the owner's tee on 17, which made it an all or nothing par 3. Did stand on the tee and it looked like a fun shot.

[Kyle Henderson]

First time I played BD was with an Asst Pro from my club, he suggested we play from all the way back. We had to ask for a special card. Probably the hardest course I've ever played. 2 was a 3wood, 3rd fairway was almost unreachable from the tee into the wind, 4th tee was back and to the right about 30 yards from the current tee which basically left you a blind second shot, 5 & 6 were brutal, 11 was 460 plus uphill into the wind which made it play about 550yards(I think I hit Driver-3wood-9iron), 12 was a 3wood into the 18th handicap hole, 15 was a 3wood (I remember hitting 3 wood into all of the par 3s that day), the 16th tee was on the other side of the 15th green so you actually had to drive over the 15th green in route to the fairway which also meant that you were just trying to get it over the crevice to make the right fairway leaving you a blind 2nd with a long iron. I walked off with 85 and won money. The Asst had to make a long putt on 18 to break 90. Never got to play the owner's tee on 17, which made it an all or nothing par 3. Did stand on the tee and it looked like a fun shot.

I played the course in a slight breeze from the standard black tees. With such wide fairways and flat greens, the course was not terribly difficult. With your tees and breeze, yikes.