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Philippe Binette

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Is simplicity the boldest move...
« on: December 12, 2008, 08:53:27 AM »
While listening to a Norah jones interview about the simplicity of her music... I just thought about this...

Is simplicity the boldest move?

I mean a golf architect has to be pretty bold to go out and say, built a course with 28 bunkers on a flattish piece of land, knowing that subtle contours and good greens would do. Nothing crazy, no great view, just a good simple golf course.

I would think not a lot of people do that because they are afraid of not doing enough, so they end up with 4 lakes, mounds and 75 bunkers, just to say that they built something...
 
Does it takes more courage to be simple?


As for Norah Jones... go out and and watch this   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufjeTqOhuM

you might get what I mean by simplicity


Nicholas Coppolo

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 09:18:04 AM »
I love this idea.  I think it takes a VERY confident architect to trust his work without arresting visuals, and I think it takes a willing and open developer to trust the architect!

I haven't played many of these, but I will say if the ground is interested (however subtle) they are without a doubt, my favorite courses.

This very bold move, may become a necessity very soon.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 09:37:04 AM »
Philippe (who I've talked with on this subject, extensively),

One of the greatest examples of bold design through relative simplicity was done by a guy known for over-doing things in so many other cases: Pete Dye at Harbour Town. During the late 1960s, the comparatively simple design of Harbour Town Golf Links was extremely bold. Pete Dye took a risk, which eventually paid off.

Frankly, I think someone going out today, attempting to do "simple" over a subtle site would be taking a similar risk to Dye's at Harbour Town, with regard to the reaction of the golfing public in today's new course market.

This, of course, is not to say I wouldn't try it ;D
jeffmingay.com

Michael Blake

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 09:38:59 AM »
I can only imagine how difficult it must be for any artist in any given discipline to show restraint when creating their work of art.

It'd be interesting to hear the gca's on this site provide some insight.

Maybe other 'artists' on this site, whehter it be musicians, painters, writers...whomever, can also share about restraint.

For me, when I used to play drums, I would go overboard during 'fill-ins," when something much simpler would have had the same effect or an even better one.  It was difficult to show restraint when the fill-in was 'my time to really show what I can do."

Rich Goodale

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 09:45:39 AM »
Excellent post, Phillipe

In all the arts the hardest thing is to be simple.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 09:52:58 AM »
Simplicity and equilibre (is that english) is a key... for timeless art I think


Tim Liddy

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 09:53:28 AM »
PB,

By simple I think you mean pure.  I agree it is very hard to do simple and do it well.  I also think in golf course architecture it is important to do the simple really well and then look at adding complexity.  It is always harder not to add the bunker.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 10:24:56 AM »
Being pure... that's an idea...

Would it be better to plan for the complicated and then get rid of the stuff that looks too much... or plan simple and working hard to keep it simple.

Kyle Harris

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 10:26:06 AM »
"The designer knows he is finished, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

Peter Pallotta

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 10:55:15 AM »
Philippe -

I think you're speaking of Simplicity with a capital "S" - a pure and idealized Simplicity, and a self-conscious one. 

I think there will always be a market for that, albeit a relatively small one.

So I don't know how bold a choice/stance it is.

What I'd imagine a bolder choice/stance is simple simplicity - an understated simplicity, one that emerges not out of grand philosophical or aesthetic ideals but out of practical and mundane necessity.   

I'm thinking once again of the average English courses that Sean Arble tends to profile, the lesser known and modest ones that seem to dot the English landscape. 

"Average" meaning what most courses offer as a bare minimum, the minimum being that they fit the land, offer playability and pleasure and strategic interest to a wide range of golfers, and work agronomically (draining well and being easy/inexpensive to maintain). 

There are few if any 10s and 9s amongst these average English courses, but there are a whole lot of 5s and 6s -- good, fine, inexpensive courses that everyone can enjoy playing.   

Their simple simplicity appeals to me very much, and I'd bet that if we could find a way to measure it, it is those courses that have provided the most pleasure to the greatest number for the least expense.

But they don't win any awards, these simple and average courses, and if Sean A and others didn't profile them here they wouldn't be profiled anywhere.

They just do the very thing that golf courses exist to do, although even this is rarely noticed.

In short, choosing (and even striving) to build an "average English course" in today's golfing world seems to me the boldest choice of all. 

Peter
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 10:56:10 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Chip Gaskins

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 11:08:40 AM »
Wouldn't you say that the folks that like "simple" (golf course architecture, music, jewelry, etc) are those that have seen, traveled, studied, and for the most part are more educated about the product and are sure enough about their convictions to appreciate where "less is really better".

most newbies in any category fall prey to the "more is better" mantra.  it takes being fooled a few times for someone to be sure enough of themselves to step back and say "who needs all that fluff".

i think it is human nature as we all get into different things in life to go through that evolution of:  interest, hype, study, wade through the hype and settle on simpler things.

its hard to sell the general public on simplicity unless you are Apple.  usually the more bells and whistles and "differentiation" the better the sales...

just my two cents....


I played Dismal River and Wild Horse the same day....less is better!

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 11:09:41 AM »
Good topic.  

I thought of Chechessee Creek when I read the thread title.  

I think Coore and Crenshaw are respected not for what they do, but rather for what they don't do.

 

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 01:49:46 PM »
Mark,

Chechesse Creek is an excellent course to bring up in this discussion. And, it reminds me of something I wrote a few years ago after visiting Chechessee Creek for the first time, below:

Many new courses attempt to “wow” golfers with visual eye-candy – ie. an overabundance of extravagant bunkers, water hazards, and other superfluous features that quite often add little, if anything at all to actual golfing interest.

Chechessee Creek Club is a wonderful exception to this modern trend.

Just six years old (the course opened for play in 2000), the architecture at Chechessee Creek Club is unusually restrained. Architects Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw – and their talented crew, lead by Dave Axland – did nothing more than was absolutely necessary to create golfing interest and a functional course.

Some dirt was moved to facilitate surface drainage over relatively flat ground in the low country of South Carolina, and to create those features absolutely necessary for golf: tees, bunkers and greens; nothing more.

The result is one of the most understated course, of serious quality, created in the modern era.   

Occupying a secluded, beautifully treed property adjacent to a tidal marsh (near Beaufort, not far from Hilton Head), everything about Chechessee Creek is low-key, and low-profile. The course genuinely exudes an old-fashion sensibility, and class that suggests it was constructed not six, but (at least) 60 years ago.

Like so many classic courses, Chechessee Creek is a joy to walk (greens and tees are in close proximity); there’s an absence of water hazards (aside from creeks at the third and sixth holes, and a carry over a tidal marsh from the twelfth tee); and, most important, plenty of room to play golf (eighteen holes using the same ball is very possible).

Don’t be fooled though. Chechessee Creek is challenging; especially from the back tees (at sea level), and when the course’s canted greens are mowed tight and rolling fast.

Indeed, rugged bunkers scattered throughout the course are beautiful works of art (typical of Coore’s and Crenshaw’s, and bunker stylist Jeff Bradley’s, efforts); there’s a wonderful collection of short, long and medium length holes covering the compass, too (which ensures golfers confront the wind from varying angles throughout a round); but it’s the greens at Chechessee Creek that really stand-out.

Pushed-up and severely tilted from back-to-front, several greens at Chechessee Creek look alike to casual viewers. They’re reminiscent of classically-styled greens typically found at those great 1920s era courses throughout the northeast United States. However, Chechessee Creek’s greens are more varied than they may initially appear, fashioned with intricate interior contour. Even the club’s experienced caddie corps find them difficult to read. 

Golfers partial to what’s become typical in course architecture in the modern era – over-shaping and over-decoration – will wonder what all the fuss is about.  Chechessee Creek appeals most to well-traveled golfers with refined taste. Like the Old Course, Chechessee Creek may not appear like much upon first sight. But, be sure: the course is replete with wonderful subtlety and old-time charm that’s learned and appreciated over time.

Coore and Crenshaw and co.’s approach to golf architecture at Chechessee Creek is a sensible and economic example for the future. Ironically, it’s a time tested-approach borrowed from the past.

jeffmingay.com

BCrosby

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 01:51:35 PM »
Bien dites, Philippe.

Pat Mucci started a thread a year or so ago seeking simple, inexpensive design ideas that aren't used very often. Lots of good stuff there.

Simplicity is not just a bold move in an aesthetic sense.

It is also a bold move in an economic sense. Developers want lots of eye candy to sell lots; the "wow" factor will pay in course rankings; few can resist spending a lot of money on a golf course when there is a lot of money to be spent.

So for an archtiect to go simple will sometimes cost him, both reputationally and monetarily.  So yes, simplicity takes courage a plusiers niveau.

Bob
  

J_McKenzie

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 03:37:06 PM »
Love Golf Design's second course, called Laurel Island Links in Kingsland, Ga., was designed with this philosophy in mind.  Of course it was also designed as a municipal course, so "simplicity" fit well there.  The course features only 19 bunkers, 9 of which are fairway bunkers, and the biggest challenge to the golfer is definitely found in the greens.  Built back in the mid-90's for less than $2.5 M, it's a fun course and a good test of golf.  Laurel Island actually hosted first stage PGA Tour Q-school qualifiers for a couple years and held up well in regards to scoring. 

As Bob states above, these types of courses don't draw a lot of attention in the golf world.  The design business is competitive and getting attention is important, so this may be one reason why this philosophy isn't implemented more often.  On the other hand, these are the courses that tend to get a lot of play and truthfully, probably do more good in growing the game than most of the high-end stuff that is out there.  There's a lot of satisfaction in knowing that you are providing a place of enjoyment for a lot of people. 

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2008, 03:43:35 PM »
Pacific Dunes is also a great example of this idea. Rather than trying too hard to force interest into the 3rd, 4th, 12, and 15th (on the flatter/more mundane portion of the property), Doak's firm placed a few hazards just where one would like to position their balls and made sure they found  interesting sites for the greens. Of course, the 4th green complex required a fair bit of earthworks, but aside from they I believe the only other major design freature they added was the bunker complex on the left side of the fairway.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

George Pazin

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2008, 05:51:51 PM »
So I don't know how bold a choice/stance it is.

A very bold one!

I have to read your post a few more times to understand the distinction you draw.

Phillipe, I love your thoughts, and I applaud your choice of words. I've been trying to make this point for awhile, calling it subtlety, but yours is definitely better.

A favorite quote from Einstein:

Laws should be as simple as possible - but no simpler.

Simple genius from a genius.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matt Kardash

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2008, 06:26:58 PM »
I remember the musician Beck once talking about how some of his songs would start out really over the top with 10 keyboard solos and a million sounds everywhere, but over time he would strip away the clutter until he came to what he thought to be the essence of the song.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Ian Andrew

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2008, 09:05:08 PM »
Philippe,

I just replaced nine holes at Saskatoon Golf & Country Club. They were lost due to expropriation by the city. The original course was designed by Bill Kinnear and was very restrained and remarkably good. He kept his tees down low and routed many landings areas onto natural crowns. The fairways have only a few bunkers for this reason. The only real strong bunkering is around the sides and backs of most greens. There is plenty of contour in his greens and almost all are pushed up above grade. Nothing fancy in the design.

When I came to building a new nine, I simply matched what he did. I too routed landing areas into crowns and followed his pattern of bunkering and pushed up greens. I even recreated a couple of the best greens that were going to be lost next year. If you can imagine there are only three fairway bunkers on my new nine and water was avoided as a hazard.

The fascinating part of building a course like this is that nothing will ever blow anyone away visually.  It will never photograph well and in today’s day and age that has an impact on what people think of your work. It takes a little bit of a thick skin to be “restrained” with your approach.

So to answer your question – I do think a “bold” move is to have the fortitude to go “simple” when everyone seems to need to be over-stimulated.

My 2 cents…

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2008, 09:13:19 PM »
Great thread, Philippe!

Is boldness down to simplicity of form creating creating either complexity of function o,r failing that, a boring design?

Complexity of function means there's no single route or way to play dictated to the golfer.  It means the architecture is not as accessible but instead must be experienced a number of times to understand and appreciate.

That's pretty bold!

Mark

Peter Pallotta

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2008, 11:07:16 PM »
George -

Believe me, I don't want to take a single thing away from the courses that Mike Young, Mike Nuzzo, Paul Cowley, C&C, Tom D, Ian Andrew (and others) have designed and built, and that Philippe is describing.  (I consantly praise and encourage that simpler approach.) But the fact that those several designers have chosen a simpler approach, and that the courses they have so designed exist and have gotten much praise, suggests to me that this approach isn't the "boldest" move - Philippe's question. It is a bold move, yes, but not the boldest. (My post tried to describe the difference.) By the way, I don't think the boldest move is a viable one -- not for a professional architect who wants to have a long career.  But that doesn't mean I can't still wish for it...

Peter   

Nicholas Coppolo

Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2008, 11:26:43 PM »
I can only imagine how difficult it must be for any artist in any given discipline to show restraint when creating their work of art.

It'd be interesting to hear the gca's on this site provide some insight.

Maybe other 'artists' on this site, whehter it be musicians, painters, writers...whomever, can also share about restraint.

For me, when I used to play drums, I would go overboard during 'fill-ins," when something much simpler would have had the same effect or an even better one.  It was difficult to show restraint when the fill-in was 'my time to really show what I can do."


As someone who makes his living in the arts I will say that a preference for simplicity or extravagance is a character trait born deep in recesses of an individual's personality.  Artists are not intrinsically simple or extravagant any more or less than any another individual.  How someone chooses to craft his art hinges primarily on how that person defines himself and his responsibilities as an artist.

Unfortunately because of the necessary capitol and regulation, there are very few artist-architects in golf (actually probably zero) that get to express themselves at will without concern.  Rather, they are constantly questioned and compromised before any work on the ground is actually done, as opposed to creating in their own vacuum and being able to present a finished, fully conceived work to the public for judgment.

For this I do not envy them.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 11:29:13 PM by Nicholas Coppolo »

Rob Rigg

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2008, 12:45:09 AM »
In this world it is much harder to restrain your ego and let the land (in this case) speak for itself than it is to go for the gusto.

Selective action is a skill because you are working within the boundaries of the natural world. Thus, your work will always complement, in a subtle manner for it to be successful.

The other tact is to impose your will, which is easier and more fulfilling to the ego.

Chapeau to crews like C&C that take the time to get to know the land and only do what is necessary to make a routing a reality. Their ability to restrain themselves is monumental.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 02:13:45 AM »
Peter

I know C&C, Doak and so on are 'minimalist' but places like Barnbougle, Friar's Head, Pacific Dunes etc still rely on the wow factor but in a good way, which is the creative use of what was there... and there's nothing wrong with that...

But what I'm talking about is courses like the English (relatively unknown) inland clubs showed on this website. There is a nice simplicity but still a great feel for golf in those places... Alwoodley could be an example of what I mean....

If built tomorrow morning, would places like that would be recognized really... Would Muirfield be a 10 on the Doak scale if somebody just opened that course yesterday... I really doubt it

Sean_A

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Re: Is simplicity the boldest move...
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 05:46:04 AM »
I wish I could articulate why simplicity of design is so appealing to me, but I am afraid it more than likely would reveal my lack of cognitive abilities.  The game of golf is such a visual task (even if only in my imagination) for me that there must be something in my genes which prefers the minimal design.  Its likely down to some deep rooted distrust of clutter.  I know I am very impressed with archies who can see the greatness in simplicity and have the balls to carry it through knowing most golfers will likely pass through the hole looking for the wow factor. 

So Phillipe, yes, I do think simplicity is a bold move for the archie because its almost a certainty that work of this sort will garner little praise and we all know that praise is what can lead to more money.  In a way, this is why naturalism or the at least the copying of it is such a great design mode.  Guys can still plug flair and make it seem simple - even if it wasn't so simple to build. 

Phillipe - thanks for this thread.  Its the best one to come along in a quite some time.  I hope archies will contribute because I am really interested in the concept even though I don't quite understand it.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

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