Stanford Golf Course -- (Hole #15 posted)

[Rich Goodale]

a.) the corner of Willow and Alpine. 
b.) Or is it Sand Hill and Junipero Serra? 
c.) Or is it Santa Cruz and Willow?

None of the above ... Alpine and Sand Hill is correct although you might have gotten half credit (which is as good as an "A" at Stanford) if you said Alpine and Sand Hill ...

If you are scoring at home, Alpine takes you to Zots, Santa Cruz takes you to the Dutch Goose, Sand Hill takes you to either the Oasis or Old Pro.

Great observation re: the confluence at that intersection.  In October I managed the left and central parts of the trident (Zots, the Goose), and two out of three ain't bad.  Your observation also fits one of the great Yogis of all time, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it!"

Rich

PS--your first road construction picture has a shot of the original 4th green in the far distance (well about 400 yards or so).  I'll always love that hole the way it was....

j-p p

[Mike Benham]

PS--your first road construction picture has a shot of the original 4th green in the far distance (well about 400 yards or so).  I'll always love that hole the way it was....

j-p p

This was taking just to the left of the old old green near the property line.

[Tom Huckaby]

That old green that Rich so loved was also beloved by a certain interloper... for many years after they ceased using it as a real golf hole, it remained as a practice green.... with humps and bumps and rolls... many it was really cool.  One could hit easily full 100 yard shots into it also without disturbing golfers on the 4th fairway.  I lived walking distance from there for two years... memories.....

 

I too miss the par four that used to exist there.... the one I know, shown in the picture a few posts back.  Never did play the version Rich did, at least not officially... several times we played up to it just for kicks.  Good hole - Stanford's "Road Hole" as either Alpine or Sand Hill were very much in play.

What's there now is not bad, though.  In fact I think they did remarkably well given the road widening.

TH

[Will Haskett]

I got out to California and played this course a few years back and I just wasn't very impressed, especially at the rate (non-student) I was having to pay. If I went to school there, however, I'd be playing every day for their price.

Not having historical knowledge of the course, it appears that some altering over the years has apparently taken some of the charm out of it. The day I played, we had to start in a shotgun, so the order to holes is a bit confusing to me. It seemed like for every good hole, there would be a letdown on another hole.

I can't remember which hole it is, but you have a big, downhill drive (par 4) to a fairway with a tree smack in the middle of the fairway. That annoys the living hell out of me. Crank a drive to the middle of the fairway and get screwed by a tree. There were a couple other areas where I thought new construction really failed to preserve the old charm of the course, either through landscaping, bunkering or simple seeding. While you get a historical feeling standing on one tee (or bridge), you get a modern feeling on the next hole.

However, I don't want to take away from the good aspects of the course. I loved the use of elevation, not to mention the views of the entire Bay Area from the 18th tee. There are some tremendous green complexes and strategy to your approach shots.

If you can get on there at the student rate (or discounted) it is a nice college course.

That would make a good discussion thread: college golf courses and where they rank: the good and the bad

[Tom Huckaby]

Welcome, Will.  The subject of how college courses stack up has been discussed MANY times in here.

But re Stanford specifically... yeah, the non-student rate isn't exactly a bargain compared to the rest of the world, but hell compared to the rest of the Bay Area it's right in line, sadly enough.  And remember this is a private club, so getting to play at all is a treat.

As for the famous hole with the tree in the middle of it (#12), that too has been bashed about in here many times.  Some love it, some hate it.  I think it's different and kinda cool... that is IF they keep the tree cut back to where going right of it is a viable play.  Sometimes the branches get too big and that side gets blocked.

TH

[John Kirk]

a.) the corner of Willow and Alpine. 
b.) Or is it Sand Hill and Junipero Serra? 
c.) Or is it Santa Cruz and Willow?

None of the above ... Alpine and Sand Hill is correct although you might have gotten half credit (which is as good as an "A" at Stanford) if you said Alpine and Sand Hill ...

If you are scoring at home, Alpine takes you to Zots, Santa Cruz takes you to the Dutch Goose, Sand Hill takes you to either the Oasis or Old Pro.

Perhaps they renamed the chunk of road that heads down the hill to the shopping center.  For most of my life, that was called Willow Rd.  Its position coincides nicely with the part of Willow Rd. that heads out to Bayshore Freeway on the other side of the railroad tracks.

[Tom Huckaby]

John - the road now goes all the way through to El Camino, instead of dying in the shopping center parking lot as it used to.  Thus it makes sense to now continue to be called Sand Hill Road all the way through.

TH

[Ian_L]

Hole #5 -- Par 4

Cardinal: 447yds
Black: 396yds
White: 356yds
Blue: 342yds

In 1930: 448yds


At this point, the course turns away from the meddling Sand Hill Road and begins my favorite lengthy stretch of the course, holes 5-9.  The fairway doglegs right significantly from all but the farthest back tee (only used in competition), favoring a fade on the tee shot.  Two fairway bunkers were eliminated at some time in the last 78 years.  A ridge remains, however, which I find interesting, as a short tee ball hit down the left side will continue to roll farther left, leaving over 200 yards to the green.  Trees guard the right side now more than in 1930, as you can see from this aerial: http://stanfordmensgolf.org/aerials/aerial5.htm .  (You can also see the old 4th greens)

The tee shot from the black tees (the ridge is more pronounced in real life):


Another bunker well short of the green appears on this hole on the right side.  For me, it comes into play mostly when I'm in the trees on the right.  I believe the back-right section of the green, where the pin is located on this day, is a new addition, although  I'm not sure.  Looking at the aerial, the green shape has changed significantly.  One can use the slope at the rear of the green to work the ball into this hole location:


A view back at the fairway.  You can see the (recently restored?) back tee on the other side of the creek:


This hole plays the same distance from the back tee as it did in 1930.  One can imagine it was a very challenging par-4 back then (it still is for me).

[Mike Benham]

From the upper back back tee ... hopefully a power fade is not your go-to shot ...

[John Kirk]

Nice golf hole here.  Fun drive skirting the oaks on the right.  Levaes a mid-to-short iron.  The back left pin position, with the deep left part of the green, was added by Harbottle III during the renovation.  Fun, but dramatically different than what was there.

[John Kirk]

http://stanfordmensgolf.org/aerials/aerial5.htm

You can see how much the road development and tree encroachment have taken away from a classic "old school" design here.  Please note the fairway rises a few feet right where the 250 mark is shown on the picture.  Getting over that rise would be extremely difficult with old equipemt.  I believe this was the original no. 1 handicap hole.

Also, you can see that Harbottle's renovation probably reconstituted some green space that was lost over the years.

[Rich Goodale]

This is a very good hole, but only from the back tee, where the rise in the fairway at 200 or so from the green comes into play from the tee shot and makes you think about the ground game (fly it into the upslope and you have a semi-blind rescue club shot).  The view is great, too....... From the lower tee it is a boring drive with no real risk-reward choices.  As John K. has said, the new green is harder with the back left fall off area (a bit of a redan), but all this does is give some interest for those playing from the front tees and brutal hardness for those playing from the back.

One final note before we pass the late. great old 4th forever, take a look at the upper right hand side of the "before" picture and imagine a hole at the crest of a swale with that well-bunkered  fast two-tier green.  Adios, old 4th.....

[Sean_A]

I spose (judging from the pix only) that I am the only one who prefers the new 4th.  It seems a shame to replace a lovely natural hazard with a not so lovely man made hazard. 





Rich

Do you know why the old green wasn't duplicated when it was moved?

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

When you talk of the "old" 4th you are actually referring to the new one (c. 1975).  The new new 4th (par 3) goes to pretty much the same new (1975) green, but apparently shifted a bit to the right towards the creek (this was not apparent to me the one and only time I played the course (oct 2008)).  Why?  Who knows (particularly me)?  Possibly because the old/new 1975 hole was a sharp dogleg left, and if you bailed out right on the tee shot if the green was right also, it would have been invisible due to the trees.  Just guessing.

Rich

[Ian_L]

Hole #6 -- Par-4

Cardinal: 429yds
Black: 408yds
White: 385yds
Blue: 327yds

In 1930: 410yds


This hole is interesting in that it seems the playing corridor has actually widened since its opening, looking at the aerials. http://stanfordmensgolf.org/aerials/aerial6.htm .  The hole is still a challenging drive, however, as the trees on the left block any drive in the left third of the fairway.  A drive down the right leaves an open shot at the green, but that side of the fairway slopes to the right, making this one of the most challenging first shots on the course. 

A wide angle gives an idea of the narrow driving corridor:


Zoomed in:



You don't want do be on the left side of the fairway.  The channel 50 yards short of the green prevents a punch shot below the tree.



From the middle of the fairway (note the O.B. fence hard against the left side of the green):


I'm sure the experts can provide further insight on this hole.

[Ian_L]

A couple more observations from the aerial:

-The green's angle to the fairway has changed significantly.
-There appears to have been a large tree overhanging the green in its original format.  Anybody remember that tree?

[Ian_L]

Bump for those who may have missed this over the weekend.

[John Kirk]

Not much to share here, Ian.  It's a well known hole, and the drainage ditch is nicely placed 40 yards short of the green.  One of the few drives on the course which demands pinpoint accuracy.  If your drive slides right, you are left to try and carry the ditch, plus potential tree issues, with the ball below your feet.  That shot was more temting to try when the rough wasn't kept so deep.

Once again, before the renovation, the green was a simple oval that sloped back to front pretty hard.  The renovated green now features a back portion that slopes away from the approach shots.  The front pin position is still very sloped, with little roo for error, since deep bunkers flank both sides.

[Mike Benham]

Yes, echoing what John said, tough driving hole but you gladly take a par-4 and run to the next tee ...


On a side-note, how did you find the conditions of the greens?  The superintendent has a program of sanding, some chemicals and no aerating to control the poa infestation ...

[Ian_L]

Mike, having played extensively on courses like Tilden Park, my standards here are pretty low when it comes to green conditioning, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.   That being said, I think they roll just fine.  They're not the firmest of greens, though.

[Kalen Braley]

Mike, having played extensively on courses like Tilden Park, my standards here are pretty low when it comes to green conditioning, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.   That being said, I think they roll just fine.  They're not the firmest of greens, though.

Ian,

Tilden is playable about 6 months out of the year due to is sogginess....where do you play the other 6 months out of the year.   

[John Kirk]

Notice the dramatic difference in green orientation.  The original green faces directly down the center of the fairway, whereas the new green strongly points towards the left side of the fairway.

 

[Ian_L]

Mike, having played extensively on courses like Tilden Park, my standards here are pretty low when it comes to green conditioning, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.   That being said, I think they roll just fine.  They're not the firmest of greens, though.

Ian,

Tilden is playable about 6 months out of the year due to is sogginess....where do you play the other 6 months out of the year.   

Unfortunately, most of my experience there was during the unplayable 6 months.    Haven't been back for a couple years, though.

This has so far played as the toughest hole on the course for me.  Anybody else agree?

[Ian_L]

Hole #7 -- Par-5

Cardinal: 539yds
Black: 479yds
White: 447yds
Blue: 432yds

In 1930: 515yds


While the last hole demanded a solid drive just to have a shot at the green in regulation, the tee shot on this hole offers (for me) more risk/reward options.  Only the longest hitters have a chance at carrying the trees (290 from the back tees), leaving a mid-iron to the green.  The rest of us have the option of playing safely to the right-middle of the fairway and playing the hole as a three-shotter, or trying to draw it around the tree to leave 210-225 to the pin.  The problem with the latter, as I have found a couple of times, is that a drive slightly too far left often requires a pitch-out due to the density of the trees, leaving 200+ just to reach the green in regulation.

Wide angle (black tees):


Trouble left:


Two greenside bunkers make a long approach difficult to run up onto the green (a bit of summer brown!):


View from the left side of the green to a back pin:


Looking at the aerial ( http://stanfordmensgolf.org/aerials/aerial7.htm ), it looks like the green angle again has been shifted away from the line of play, although less so than #6.  Some trees have also been removed from around the green.

(Note: feel free to post on previous holes as well)

[Matt_Cohn]

looks like if you hit it left in the old days you could manufacture a shot out; now you're pretty much done. cool hole though.