Do Your Opinions of a Course Ever Change Much from First Impressions?

[Phil Benedict]

I'm reading this book called Blink which has an anecdote about how poorly All in the Family and the Mary Tyler Moore Show tested, yet turned out to be long-running hits.  The author said that this was because the shows were so different from other sitcoms that the test audiences didn't know what to make of them.

This made me think about my own reaction to first experiences on courses that might be characterized as different: Yale, Tobacco Road and The Irish Course at Whistling Straits.  I loved Yale from the start even though it was in awful shape; was lukewarm to TR and hated the Irish Course.  I've played Yale several times now and my affection has grown but I wonder if I might warm up to TR if I played it a few more times.  Several times during my one round at Tobacco Road I found myself asking "what's the point?"  Maybe I'd find out the point if I played it again.  On the other hand I have no desire to play the Irish Course again.

 

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

In general, first impressions are usually the last ones as well.

[John Moore II]

Mine might, but only for the better. I have had courses that 'grew' on me the more I played them. But the bad ones generally stayed bad in my opinion, if only because courses that I thought were horrendous, I almost never return to play again.

Case in point, I thought The Pit stunk the first time I played, swore I'd never go back, went back, it still stunk, maybe more than before.

But Mid South, I thought it was pretty good the first time I played, but after playing it about 40 times, I really liked it, I thought it was real good.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I confess to being one of those who thought The Old Course was a goat ranch the first time I played it.
I put that down to being only 16 and not knowing any better!
Subsequent visits have changed my mind, way more than I ever considered possible.

[Tom Huckaby]

I'd say first impressions are the most lasting, but opinions can change over time.  

I can think of one that the more I've played the less I like:  Poppy Ridge, Livermore, CA.

The examples of coming to like a course more over time are many, however - I have lots of those.

TH

[Sean_A]

I often change my opinion to a certain degree after more than one play, but I don't recall ever thinking a course stunk (or was great) and then later thought it was great (or terrible). 

For instance, I cooled off on Muirfield mainly because of the brutal rough.  Its tough to see past this stuff when you know wind is a factor and yet the powers that be offer so little room to play.  I also cooled off on Machrihanish a bit because of the finish.  While I really like Tobacco Road and applaud the original design, after a few more visits I can't help thinking the course should be better with what are seemingly obvious adjustments.

My opinion of Woking improved a bit these past few years, but that is due in part to the club clearing the place out a bit.  I also realize how much movement the greens have in relation to most other heathland courses and its a plus.  I would also say I have a greater appreciation for Prestwick these days.  I have grown to love variation of flat and dunes in a design.  I spose this is probably down to coming to the realization that dunes are very pretty, but they do have a drawback in limiting the width of the field of play.  A very bad combination when the rough and wind are up.  The grand daddy of all these semi opinion reversals has to be Kington.  I had no idea what to make of the place the first few times around.  Now I am completely taken by the place.

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean I'd agree complete reversals of opinion are rare.  But you've given at least one (Kington) and I have one in the "pretty good to this really sucks" category (Poppy Ridge); and several in the "this sucks to you know, this course really isn't that bad" category (my home course Santa Teresa, several other munis and the like).

One thing about all this though:  I really do think the very best courses are great on first play and just keep getting better.  Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Pebble Beach, hell name a course toward the top of a list I (one's own or otherwise) and it probably works this way.  Shoot I even loved St. Andrews Old Course the first play - but of course that does once again tend to be the exception that proves the rule.

TH

[Andrew Summerell]

When you are on a ‘great’ golf course, you just can’t take in everything on the first visit. That’s the wonderful thing about our love of golf courses. Our opinions can grow as we take in more of the subtleties that make the great courses great. I thought courses like Swinley Forest & Garden City were great on my first visit, but have fallen more in love with them on subsequent visits as I notice & understood more of their subtleties.

Other courses hit you with the ‘wow’ factor on the first visit, but it’s all they’ve got & on the 2nd visit you walk away a little disappointed.

Many courses are multi-facetted & only reveal their mysteries one at a time. A course like New South Wales has been like that for me. It still hits you with the ‘wow’ factor on the 1st visit, but as I’ve played it many times I’ve come to see the intricacies that many would miss on only 1 or 2 visits.

I think it is quite reasonable for our opinions to change, or maybe it’s best to say our opinions grow.

[Joe Bausch]

I must be different than many of the earlier posters, but I definitely can change my opinion of a course after the 2nd or 3rd time around it.  I guess I'm just too easily distracted or are concentrating too much on playing golf the first time on a new track.  But after 2 or 3 times my opinion is pretty much formed and won't waver much.

[Sean_A]

Sean I'd agree complete reversals of opinion are rare.  But you've given at least one (Kington) and I have one in the "pretty good to this really sucks" category (Poppy Ridge); and several in the "this sucks to you know, this course really isn't that bad" category (my home course Santa Teresa, several other munis and the like).

One thing about all this though:  I really do think the very best courses are great on first play and just keep getting better.  Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Pebble Beach, hell name a course toward the top of a list I (one's own or otherwise) and it probably works this way.  Shoot I even loved St. Andrews Old Course the first play - but of course that does once again tend to be the exception that proves the rule.

TH

AwsHuckster

Hang on there partner (think Matt Ward).  I didn't say Kington sucked.  I said I didn't know what to make of it after a few goes.  I had never seen (and still haven't) a course like Kington.  You know how there are holes which are one offs, the nearly the entire course at Kington is this way.  The only other experience of another course I can use to compare is Painswick, but that is much more about funk whereas Kington has definite balance of good design strategy and funk.  In truth, it would be great GCA.com venue for a golf hoedown.  

I don't think I have come across those obviously really great courses they way you have - with the exception of Sandwich.  All the other ones I would call the really greats (2*) took me some time to come to that conclusion.  

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

Fair enough, sorry about that.

And I get what you're saying about the greats also.  You tend to be far more discerning than me when it comes to such things; that is, I am ready to give two or three stars pretty damn quickly.  That being said, I can't think of one that I gave that honor to (in my mind) which later lost it.  All just did tend to get better with repetition.  That's more what I meant.

TH

[PCCraig]

When you are on a ‘great’ golf course, you just can’t take in everything on the first visit. That’s the wonderful thing about our love of golf courses. Our opinions can grow as we take in more of the subtleties that make the great courses great.

I couldn't agree more.

The first time I saw TCC - Brookline I wondered what all the fuss was about. After 200+ loops and 50+ rounds I can honestly say I know the golf course and believe it to be great.

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Fair enough, sorry about that.

And I get what you're saying about the greats also.  You tend to be far more discerning than me when it comes to such things; that is, I am ready to give two or three stars pretty damn quickly.  That being said, I can't think of one that I gave that honor to (in my mind) which later lost it.  All just did tend to get better with repetition.  That's more what I meant.

TH

AwsHuckster

I think you are quite lucky to be able to say a course is near the top of the tree so quickly.  It probably says a lot about a healthy attitude toward life.  Keep yer down my friend.

Ciao

[TEPaul]

"Do your opinions of a course ever change much from first impressions?"

Sure do and sometimes bigtime on the ones that give a fairly good first impression. With those ones things always seem to get better and better the more you experience them. I'm one of those people who think there's no way at all you can really understand that much about even a great course until you experience it over time. Or the other explanation may be I'm just a slow starter and a slow learner.

[Gerry B]

the 1 course that comes to mind where my opinion changed in a positive way after repeat visits is The Country Club  - disappointed the 1st time - expectations were high / 2nd time liked it better / 3rd time was a charm - cannot explain why this is the case.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

Sure ...

I keep my mind open -- but it's more towards the small minority of times that I really hange my thoughts in a 100% manner.

Clearly, the time of year you play a course and the weather factors you faced on a given day can influence things greatly. Good example being PB -- play it in the winter months and the turf conditions can be slow and wet -- go six months later and the course plays a good bit faster and drier.

Wind direction can make a big difference too. When I played The Rawls Course in Lubbock, TX -- the day's win pattern was out of the NE and blowing at 15 mph. That wind is the EXACT opposite of how the course was designed to play with a SW wind. As a result, holes that would generally plsy tough (the long par-4 7th comes to mind) was really a piece of cake that day.

One has to keep that in mind when playing because first impressions are influenced by such matters unless you adjust accordingly.

Keep in mind, general turf quality can also influence one's impressions. I've played places where the turf was wretched and then with real care, attention and $$ things can change big time. Forsgate in NJ is a good example of that -- if one played the course for the first time 8-10 years ago and see what is today you'd be looking at a far different course.

Courses do evolve so opinions need to do likewise when circumstances and facts prove otherwise.

[Patrick Kiser]

I've heard this from several as well.

But repeated play changed their minds about the course.

I confess to being one of those who thought The Old Course was a goat ranch the first time I played it.
I put that down to being only 16 and not knowing any better!
Subsequent visits have changed my mind, way more than I ever considered possible.

[John Foley]

Phil - Great question - BTW - I loved the book and look forward to reading Gladwell's new book shortly.

I few years ago I played a course and loved it. For me it was off the charts.

Playing it again next week and really looking forward to seeing how my opinion has changed over the years.

[Jerry Kluger]

I always appreciate the opportunity to play a course for the first time so I presume it will be a positive experience.  Two factors which I believe affect all of us when first viewing a course is how you are playing and course conditioning.  After playing the course, I try to reflect back and see things without those two factors playing as great of a role in my impression of the course.  I don't think that I can say that my impressions have become more or less positive after I have playing a course more than once - some get better, some get worse, but I don't think that I am astute enough to say that I learned everything I could about a course after playing it once.   

[Pat Burke]

My first experience at Sandpiper in Goleta was positive and a little shocking.  I never heard of the place coming from the east coast, and was playing in a US Am qualifying that happened to take place immediately after what was then a TPA Tour event (early incarnation of the Hogan Tour).  The course was immaculate, and the setting incredible.  In subsequent events, the conditioning seemed avg at best, and other than a few holes, the course seemed to fall back a bit in my eyes.  Eye candy at the shore can definitely make anything beautiful, and I'm not saying Sandpiper is bad, just not as good as my first impression.
I still recommend it to people traveling in the area