Interest in an Armchair Architecture Contest/Activity?

[Charlie Goerges]

I would like to gauge interest in an armchair architecture activity/contest. I have created a topographical map based on USGS survey information and from that map I’ve created a 3D sketchup file so that designs could be viewed in 3D.

The location I chose is a real course that has been built in the last ten years. I chose it because that way I knew the land would be suited to being a golf course. It wasn’t designed by anyone who posts here, at least to my knowledge.

Now, to the gauging interest part of the post. Is anyone interested in participating? In what capacity would you like to participate? If it’s going to be a real contest, there should be judges, prizes of some kind, and some rules or guidelines. Also, if anyone is interested in doing a design, how would you like to do it? As mentioned, there is a map (jpeg) and a 3D sketchup file. The jpeg map could be edited in an image editing program, or printed out and drawn upon. Sketchup is a free program and you can draw basically in 2D right in it, then convert it to 3D. I won’t go into depth here, I’ve already created a tutorial and another thread that focused on how to do it: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36362.msg742053.html#msg742053

So, give me your opinions on this. If there is no interest  , I’ll just let this idea slowly die. If it dies but an individual is interested in doing it purely for fun, just let me know and I’ll make the info available.

Charlie

[Garland Bayley]

Depending on my free time, I am interesting in participating.
The easiest would be print a topographic map, draw on it, scan in the results, and post.
I am interested in learning the software, but doubt I would find the time to.

[tlavin]

And expose my pitiful lack of knowledge, skill and vision?  NFW!!!

[Chip Gaskins]

sounds fun to me...whats to lose?

[Charlie Goerges]

Glad to see some interest, and you're right Chip, you've got nothing to lose. Also, everyone let me know what you think as far as making it a contest (and judges etc.), and what medium you'd like to see used (hand drawn, image editor, 3D file). And last, I don't forsee any issues with using a real course, but if there are any, let me know.

Thanks,

Charlie

[Jim Colton]

Charlie,

I'd love the opportunity to show why I should keep my day job.  It was hard enough building those 1-2 holes from your last exercise, I don't know how I'll come up with a full 18 holes in some sort of cohesive routing.  If nothing else, it helps cement just how good these guys really are.

[Ian_L]

Having done the previous activity, I'd just like to say it's loads of fun.  Starting the 18-hole routing has opened my eyes so some architectural challenges I hadn't thought about much while on the course.

Personally, I'd recommend using Sketchup.  It's a few minutes of work to install and set up the program, but the tutorial is very well done (even I figured it out).  It's great to see the course from a 3-D perspective with shaped bunkers and the like.  You can put yourself on the tee or in the fairway and see what the golfer would see.  However, if you don't have the time for that, a 2-D drawing is definitely fun as well.

[RJ_Daley]

I just downloaded the google Sketch up.  I somehow got diverted and never looked into the previous thread after I had initial problems with the download.  But, I have it up now, and will review the old thread and see if I can get the hang of it.

It looks like Ian and you got going pretty good on the back and forth of the 2 hole design.

I think you have a good idea Charlie.  It might certainly be something to pass the long winter months.  If two holes got that complicated, I imagine all 18 would be a real time consumer.  I wish I'd have stuck with the original thread, but it went "out of sight- outof mind" for me.

We had a contest years ago, run by Jeremy Glenn GCA in Canada.  A few of us put in alot of time.  My friend Pete Galea in Nor Cal made an amazing tabletop model of the land we had as the contest property.  You would not believe it.  It is probably still in that 'way back' machine of finding old internet threads, but I don't know how to use it.  I wish Pete would read this and post a pic of his entry.  It was incredible. 

I hope several folks will enjoy Charlie's offer to get this going and help.  I know, I'll have a learning curve that will take some concentration and time to get up and running.  I actually had some AutoCadd classes years ago and forgot pretty much everything... 

[Charlie Goerges]

Don't worry about autocad RJ, sketchup isn't quite the same thing. What's more, you can still just draw in 2d, like you would in microsoft paint or photoshop, when laying out your design. Then you simply use a tool to "Drape" or project your drawing onto a 3D surface and then color.

A lot of the back and forth with Ian was based on getting more detail into the images, not everyone would need to do that to participate. Plus, I'll offer all the help I can.

[Brian Laurent]

Sounds like fun...I'm in.

[PCCraig]

I would love to try this out.

[Pat Burke]

I'll give it a whirl
Computer illiterate, but willing to learn
Be fun to see how much I don't know!

[Charlie Goerges]

Glad to see there is some serious interest. I guess we are at critical mass, there will be something, but we need to decide what it will be. (Before I go further, I want to thank Ian Linford for pushing me to get this thing finished. There can't be a more strategically minded thinker when it comes to this armchair stuff. Perhaps a future architect?)

So, I would like to hear people weigh-in on a couple of things.

First, is this to be a contest? If yes, we'll need judges. I will organize, gather, collate, etcetera, but I am definitely not qualified to judge. There is also the secondary issue of prizes. I don't think they are necessary, but some way of recognizing folks would be great - give me your ideas. We can decide on the rules, categories, deadlines after we get this first thing figured out. (also, I am declaring myself ineligible for any contest, I have too much conflict of interest)

Second, I realize some folks may refrain because it seems difficult to learn a new software program. Don't let that stop you. If it comes down to it, just print out the map and hand-draw it, scan it or mail it to me, and I'll try to get it loaded in. That said, if you were able to do even just a little of it in sketchup, it would be a big help and in doing so I think you'd find sketchup pretty user-friendly.

So let me know your opinions on the previous and we'll go from there.

[RJ_Daley]

Personally, I'd rather see it an expo sort of thing where folks just do their own interpretation then share it for comments.  Of course we wouldn't want anyone's sensitivities to get trampled on if the design gets panned.  I imagine even the armchair architects (perhaps particularly the armchair guys) believe their design ranks right up there with the old masters... 

[Ian_L]

After thinking about it I think I would go for more of an expo, that way it will be more constructive, and feel like more of a process.  Hopefully it will lead to more discussion.  Maybe an informal vote for the best design once everyone's done?

[Jim Thompson]

Charlie,

I like everything about this except the part about it being an existing course.  That really doesn't do anyone any good.  I have aset of Topos I could send you that has never been seen by anyone for anything and 18 holes would fit on it.  I'm happy to send it to you for this task if you want it.

As for judges, I think you can get five guys to do a blind evaluation.  We'd just need one person to collect the entries and then forward them to the judges n a non descript manner.  I'd also leave the entry format open to whatever works best for the participants.

I'd participate, but unlike the prior contest, I think we all need a good month to do our routing and holes.

Let me know if you'd like the Topo files.

JT

[Charlie Goerges]

Charlie,

I like everything about this except the part about it being an existing course.  That really doesn't do anyone any good.  I have aset of Topos I could send you that has never been seen by anyone for anything and 18 holes would fit on it.  I'm happy to send it to you for this task if you want it.

As for judges, I think you can get five guys to do a blind evaluation.  We'd just need one person to collect the entries and then forward them to the judges n a non descript manner.  I'd also leave the entry format open to whatever works best for the participants.

I'd participate, but unlike the prior contest, I think we all need a good month to do our routing and holes.

Let me know if you'd like the Topo files.

JT

Interesting point RE the fact it has an existing course. What if I just didn't tell anyone which course it was?

All, the more input we get regarding how you'd like to see it run, the better. We've got 2 votes for Expo, 1 vote for contest. If more folks could weigh in on Jim's points, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Charlie

[Carl Rogers]

sure i would
who judges?
what is the prize?

[Charlie Goerges]

sure i would
who judges?
what is the prize?

Carl, those questions are what this thread is designed to figure out. So, I am bumping this to try to get more input.

Bear in mind everyone, that if we decide that using the topos of an existing course (EDIT: the topos are of the land on which a course has been built, and they are probably not extraordinarily accurate, I can give more explanation later) won't cause some horrible damage, the entire thing (map, files, methods of design, tutorials etc.) is already done. We just need to decide:

Is it a contest or an exposition?

If it is a contest, who will judge, and will there be prize(s)?

From there we can decide on the rules, timeline, categories etc.

So, we've got enough interest (though I hope there will be more), now we need people to weigh in on the previous questions. Feel free to give your opinion even if you haven't evinced interest thus far. I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks again,

Charlie

[Michael Rossi]

I should have the time this winter, I am willing to try.

[PCCraig]

Lets do a contest.

I think this could be a fun annual type thing. Maybe the winner's layout is posted on the site in the tabs on the left with a description of the holes?

So are there going to be guidelines to building the course? # of bunkers and lakes? Moving ground or using only existing landforms? (Sorry I'm new to this.)

[JC Jones]

Im in.  I also support a contest, especially if we can get 1 or more of our Archie contributors to take some of their time to judge.  (obviously that'd be asking ALOT).

[Yannick Pilon]

Regardless of the format you guys want to use, I would not mind acting as a judge if you need one. 

Just to give you a quick background, I have been working for Graham Cooke & Assoc. Inc., out of Montreal, Quebec, since 1997.  Since then, I have worked on dozens of courses, from preliminary routings to final feature shapes out in the field....  I think I would qualify as a potential judge....  However, it would be great if we could have a panel of judges....
I could maybe be of help in establishing that as well.

Just let me know if I can be of assistance!

YP

[Charlie Goerges]

Just let me know if I can be of assistance!

YP

Yannick, you’re hired! Hey everybody, we’ve got a vict..uhh… VOLUNTEER! Just kidding, thanks for you’re willingness. I don’t know if you tried the link in my original post, but that takes you to another exercise similar to this one (though not a contest) using a smaller map (only enough area for 2-3 holes). If you take a look at some of the images in that thread, you’ll get a feel for what the final entries would look like. Let me know what you think.

Also, if you do know of others in the business who wouldn’t mind assisting in the judging, then by all means ask them to participate.


All: we now have a 3-2 count in favor of a contest. If we go that route, I’d like to see a number of categories, so that more folks have a chance to shine. I’m thinking Best Overall, Competitors’ Choice, Best par 3/4/5, most dastardly bunker, etc. Give me your ideas.

Also, I’m thinking that we’ll get started after the first of the year sometime. I want to know how much time everyone would like to have. If you want a head start on learning sketchup, try the link to the other thread and download sketchup and the old file. You can practice a bit if you wish.

[Brett Morris]

I'd love to have a go.

There was a little criticism recently about a winning design in a contest from others who entered, but when I suggested that some post their entries so we could all take a look, nothing happened.

Bring it on.