Lost Canyon

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

There is this MAJOR fallacy about LC and having your butt kicked. In my experiences you'll get your butt kicked just as hard when playing such classic designs as Oakmont, Winged Foot / West and Shinnecock Hills, to name just three. Thrown in Bethpage Black and The Ocean Course in the event you need a few more names. When classic courses that give equal time for butt whipping are celebrated and the reverse doesn't happen you then have a clear pattern of outright preference / bias, call it what one will.

I don't doubt LC has a few holes that are redundant -- I opined on the 1st and 10th holes. But ...

There are quite a few solid holes on Sky. The par-3 2nd is a gem -- ditto thepar-3 17th. The plunging downhill par-5 12th is good --- I also liked uphill long par-4 11th, to name just another.

The differences are profound between Sky and Shadow. The former has the better site and the more consistent presentation. Keep in mind, some people will object -- rightly or wrongly -- on the fees charged and the concern / hostility, again call it what one may, about having forecaddies being charged, cart rides and all the rest.

If you prefer your golf like steak and potato meals -- stick to RC -- I like the course and understand what it provides. But ...

If you are somewhat e-l-a-s-t-i-c in taking in a far different golf "adventure" then LC / Sky will provide clearly a different presentation (hence my connection to Thai food).

No doubt there are snobs on this site -- c'mon, let's be honest shall we -- who see golf as being the singular domain of guys who have long left this earth as golf architects. No doubt they should be celebrated for what they provided but the Dyes (whether Pete or his kin) have always been controversial and it's likely that few classic school lovers will feel close kinship to any number of the Dye style courses -- especially those that have come towards the end of Pete's career.

Is LC like Rustic Canyon? No, not at all.

Two completely different presentations

[C. Sturges]

Matt,

When I played there with a friend in our yearly cup trip we both shot in the low 70's.  I mentioned Rustic Canyon, because if I had the choice to play either it is the one I would rather play.  I flew in from Oregon and felt I had lost a day to play somewhere else.  The course we were supposed to play had complications that day and know one played.  They recommend LC because of it being a top 100.  We took their advice and were very disapointed.  I do not know the area better to recommend some where else, but I wish all the talk about LC had happened before. 

[ed_getka]

Sir Thomas of Huckaby calling me a golf snob. Geez, I move to the east coast and now I'm persona non grata! Please define GCA'er, I'm not sure if that is good or bad.
   Just so you know, I played Tobacco Road yesterday. Not top 100, but I had a glorious day of weather and enjoyed myself.

[Tony Ristola]

Yes Matt, PERRY Dye wanted and was controversial!

Yes, we had the guys from Landmark on here, trying to tell us that this was a sole creation of Pete's and that he really found the best holes on the property. Yada, yada, yada. If Pete wants to take full credit for Shadow, then Lost Canyons-Shadow is without doubt the worst golf course Pete has ever designed.Matt, you and I have talked about how bad the 18th really is. (Ridiculous would be a better word)

As far as the Sky Course, well.....Hmmmmmmm....Ed Getka, where are you? James Bennett?

We took a group out there to show James the rolling hills of Lost Canyons. Ed Getka felt it maybe the worst golf course he had ever seen. Me, I don't mind it. Beautiful country, just some stupid golf holes.

LC a Top 100? Top 100 what?

It would have been interesting if they tried to get 18 good holes out there instead of 36. I've only seen half the show, played decent during a windy day and it was a handful.

Anyone know what the costs were to build the courses?

[Tom Naccarato]

Tony,
I've heard various amounts. I could only guess the road going in there, which in all fairness was going to be for a resort and houses--well they should just rename the place Rancho Costa Plenty.

[Tom Huckaby]

Sir Thomas of Huckaby calling me a golf snob. Geez, I move to the east coast and now I'm persona non grata! Please define GCA'er, I'm not sure if that is good or bad.
   Just so you know, I played Tobacco Road yesterday. Not top 100, but I had a glorious day of weather and enjoyed myself.

Ed:  you're not a golf snob?  You've admitted it many times.  And citing Tobacco Road as somehow slumming it rather proves the point.

But you know you are beloved. 

And if there's a persona non grata, it's me, not you.





TH

[ed_getka]

Sir Thomas of Huckaby calling me a golf snob. Geez, I move to the east coast and now I'm persona non grata! Please define GCA'er, I'm not sure if that is good or bad.
   Just so you know, I played Tobacco Road yesterday. Not top 100, but I had a glorious day of weather and enjoyed myself.

Ed:  you're not a golf snob?  You've admitted it many times.  And citing Tobacco Road as somehow slumming it rather proves the point.

But you know you are beloved. 

And if there's a persona non grata, it's me, not you.





TH

Tom,
    Tobacco Road is far from slumming. Hopefully next week I will have time to post my thoughts about the course. The par 3's weren't nearly as good as the set at MPCC, and I'm beginning to wonder if Mike Strantz has designed any good short par 4's for anyone who hits the ball less than 280 from the appropriate tees.
     

[Jed Peters]

..... and I'm beginning to wonder if Mike Strantz has designed any good short par 4's for anyone who hits the ball less than 280 from the appropriate tees.
     

4 and 5 at MPCC.

[ed_getka]

Jed,
  I assume you are being facetious. I think a great short par 4 has at least two compelling options, and usually a pretty brilliant green to make the easier tee shot still have a tough approach shot. 4 and 5 at MPCC don't do that. The strength of MPCC is the set of par 3's and par 5's IMO. Also a good chunk of the regular par 4's give you some different looks that keep things interesting.

[Mark_F]

I think a great short par 4 has at least two compelling options,

Ed,

What are the second compelling options on Barnbougle 4 or 12?

[ed_getka]

Mark,
    Nice to hear from you. I think #4 offers a realistic chance of driving the green when one is playing the appropriate tees. Laying up down in the fairway gives you breathing room off the tee, although it certainly isn't as easy as just bumping one up the first fairway at TOC. The approach from the fairway up into the green is certainly not a matter of just knowing the yardage and hitting the ball the right distance. The front to back spine that bisects the green, and the hiding area for the pin on the left side of the green I'm thinking must be blind from the fairway. So there are two compelling options IMO, both of which are achievable, but one is not so impossible to pull off that it immediately gets eliminated from consideration.
   The holes I spoke of at Tobacco Road have 2 options, but one is 1 in 100 (or less) in pulling off when I am playing the appropriate tees. That is the driving the green or just in front of the green option. The other option is bailing out to the comfortably wide fairway to the right, and then having a very routine SW-9I approach to a pretty flat green on hole #5. On hole #16 the "easy" tee shot is more daunting visually, and the approach is uphill to a pretty undulating green so the approach isn't a cakewalk either. However, not too many golfers in their right mind are going to attempt to drive the green more than 1 out of 500 tries.
    Of course I could be wrong and the next time I go there maybe I will take a crack at them just to see.
    Have a great summer of golf.