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Joel_Stewart

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2008, 01:05:51 PM »
Not many historians here.

Ben Hogan has to be the one.
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Anthony Gray

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2008, 01:16:28 PM »


  Old Tom Morris.


  Anthony

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Peter Pallotta

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2008, 01:18:43 PM »
I think it was Johnny Miller who said he believed that the reason Jack N never got the yips is because he rarely went pin-hunting (landing the ball 15/20 feet away instead, inevitably on the safe-side) and so never got the chance to miss all the four and five footers for birdie that (once missed) helped bring on the yips.

Phillipe's point is a good one, i.e. who made the most with the least? But I'd say Tiger, because he got to the game when a whole new level of thinking was developing, i.e. how to tackle the great courses with equipment (and talent) that was threatening to make them obsolete. His work at various British Opens for example....

Peter 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 01:22:41 PM by Peter Pallotta »
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TEPaul

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2008, 01:20:40 PM »
Jamie:

Thanks for the actual wording of that Tiger, Els, Feherty story. Actually, if you think about it the words of that producer are some of the best of all.  ;)

Do you happen to know the wording of that Black joke Tiger impromtu told Feherty one time while they were walking down the fairway?

Did you hear the one where Tiger snuck into the galley of his super yacht on his stomach with a live lobster he'd caught and managed to attach the lobster to the ankle of his cook?
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TEPaul

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2008, 01:25:11 PM »
"Ben Hogan has to be the one."

Joel:

There's no question in my mind that Ben Hogan certainly thought so. So much so I suppose, he seemed to get into a bit of rationalization like the time he hit a wedge to one of the last greens in the 1960 Open that hit the bank and dropped back into the water thereby killing a possible Open win for him. His response was; I didn't miss the shot I just didn't hit it far enough."  ;)

But what the hell, I've complimented a lot of golfers over the years for some odd shots. They might hit something like a snap hook or a shank and I tell them: "That's a damn interesting shot and it could probably be used somewhere to great effect but apparently not on this hole."
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 01:29:54 PM by TEPaul »
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2008, 01:34:17 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on December 03, 2008, 01:05:51 PM
Not many historians here.

Ben Hogan has to be the one.

Ben Hogan. Analyze where to hit it AND hit it there. Jack. Analyze where to hit it, hit it there a high percentage of the time. Tiger. Analyze where to hit it. Hit it there sometimes, OR Analyze where to hit it. hit it there with an iron, score better than anyone.

Smartest. Ben Hogan, he knew what to do and how to get it done.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JESII

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2008, 01:35:22 PM »
The truth about the Hogan 7 iron story would be interesting to hear...did he really leave it out of the bag at a US Open? Possibly Merion?
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john_stiles

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2008, 01:38:44 PM »
After watching Tiger hit irons off the tee at Hoylake all four days, laying back of many a bunker,  I would say Tiger Woods.   He can smash it as far as anyone, and he was laying up off the tee, and hitting much longer shots into many par 4s.   And he won.
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TEPaul

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2008, 01:55:49 PM »
"The truth about the Hogan 7 iron story would be interesting to hear...did he really leave it out of the bag at a US Open? Possibly Merion?"


Believe so, Sully---all true. You know why he said he left out that 7 iron, don't you?

The guy obviously said some things that went past cocky or confident though and the one I like in that vein was when they asked him why he didn't go at one of the back nine part 5s in the Masters when he was in range in the last round. His reply was: "I didn't feel I needed an eagle."
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JESII

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2008, 02:02:55 PM »
Well all I know Tommy is that when I am trying an extra wedge or three wood or something and decide to take out a 7 iron or something else in the middle of the line-up I get about 6 shots that call for exactly that club in the first 9 holes...

If the same thing happened to him and he just decided to lean on an 8 iron I would feel great...anybody know?
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2008, 02:12:44 PM »
My recollection from his biography was that he said he left it out, because there were no 7 iron shots on the course, and he didn't miss any shots that would have left him with a 7 iron.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JESII

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2008, 02:14:25 PM »
Sure...but are you telling me he didn't plan for a 6 rion approach and his drive bounced just a bit further than he anticipated? Not once?
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Peter Pallotta

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 02:19:50 PM »
Yeah, Jim - I don't know what's more remarkable, that Ben didn't have occasion to lean on an 8 or ease up on a 6 even once, or that he wouldn't admit to having to lean or or ease up, even once.   Either way, I guess you can't be looking to Hogan for support....

Peter
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Kenny Baer

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 02:20:38 PM »
I am not old enough to know exactly how Jack worked his way around a golf course and am certainly not old enough to know how Hogan worked his way around but it would be hard pressed for either one of them to be a better course manager than Tiger.  

Tiger has won golf tournaments in every way possible.  1 driver in 72 holes to win the British Open at Hoylake; he hit 4 drivers in 72 holes at Southern Hills 2 years ago and won the PGA; he has overpowered St. Andrews, Pebble, and Augusta.  He knows how to attack a golf course from every angle and is a true master of his craft.

He did cost himself 1 Masters when he tried to drive the 3rd green in 03 and he made double bogey but I am sure during Jack's long career he did something similar.
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TEPaul

Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 02:24:27 PM »
"Sure...but are you telling me he didn't plan for a 6 rion approach and his drive bounced just a bit further than he anticipated? Not once?"


Sully:

That is what Hogan said even if it may've been hyperbole. I'm sure you realize he was one of the very best of the old time shot makers. Hogan was not a big man by any means but he was remarkably strong and could actually hit it a long way like with his driver but he often didn't do that on purpose hitting lots of little cut shrimp drives like Corey Pavin that used to amaze his competitors because they understood he had so much more effective distance if he wanted it. Hogan was probably one of the very best and most effective shot-making strategists top flight golf has ever known.
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JESII

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »
To that end, I love his comments about that famous approach to the 72nd green at Merion...he said that if he wanted a birdie he would have hit his four-wood and cut it up into the right corner there...probably one of those shrimp cuts you mention...the image I get of his game is total control.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2008, 02:53:58 PM »
Tiger is a genius at picking others brains.

Ben was a genius at figuring things out for himself.

You tell me who's smarter.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Hendren

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2008, 02:57:46 PM »
Kavanaugh.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2008, 03:16:37 PM »
Quote from: Michael_Hendren on December 03, 2008, 02:57:46 PM
Kavanaugh.

I understand he is a fine architect, but what do we know about him as a golfer?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2008, 03:33:21 PM »
Seamus MacDuff or Shivas Irons...take your pick...
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Greg Chambers

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2008, 04:26:45 PM »
Padraig, he was smart enough to win a couple majors while Tiger was laid up with a bad knee.
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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2008, 04:41:13 PM »
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Rick Sides

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2008, 02:17:36 PM »
I think it's Johnny Miller; just ask Johnny Miller ;)
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2008, 02:46:26 PM »
Bob,H.

Thomson was a good pick.
I think he would pick Hogan because Peter placed a great importance on self-reliance when it came to being able to figure out the swing and the game.
He, of course, never sought the advice of anybody when it came to golf.
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: Who Is the Smartest golfer?
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2008, 03:10:30 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Clayton on December 04, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Bob,H.

Thomson was a good pick.
I think he would pick Hogan because Peter placed a great importance on self-reliance when it came to being able to figure out the swing and the game.
He, of course, never sought the advice of anybody when it came to golf.


Mike,

Peter, his gorgeous looking wife, and some keen golfers had dinner with some of us when we rented a place at St. Andrews a few years ago. A great conversation was had by all and mention was made that Peter was writing a book. I reminded him that he was asked to do that twenty  -five years ago but he declined, saying that there wasn't enough about the golf swing to fill a book.

Somehow I think the amount offered might have changed his mind.


Bob
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