Wine Valley Golf Club - Walla Walla, Washington

[Craig Sweet]

Eagle Bend is a joke Garland...it is difficult to believe the same guy that "designed" Old Works and Dismal River had anything to do with EB....

[Norbert P]

 The Lewis and Clark Golf Trail - from  St. Louis Country Club to Astoria CC.



 I like the clever crossover routing in Montana.  Marion Hollins has got nothin' on Sacajawea.

 Hmmm, thinking Valentine, Sutton Bay, Links of North Dakota (Red Mike) would be interesting additions to the trail.    Road trip !!!

*********

Garland, I assume you are speaking of Fought's Sundoon in Dallesport. Very interesting land above the Columbia River on the sunny side of the Cascade Mountains. I'll look for a worthy picture.  It was slated to begin work very soon but didn't see any activity when I stopped by a couple of months ago.   

Bill, great idea for a one way from Montana. I regret not making it out that way this past year play golf with Craig and drink copious amounts of Moose Drool. 

 

[Norbert P]

Garland, here's a picture I took a couple of months ago in Dallesport, WA - roughly 100 miles east of Portland.  I don't know if this is even the property that will have the Sundoon golf course but it does give a feel for the land and views.   November 2008.

 

[Garland Bayley]

Well Slagbert, you know that Clark had a terrible slice and kept going right. Eventually he found the Yellowstone fairway, with its audacious containment mounding to keep him in check. Many strokes later he rejoined Lewis, who had been playing the reverse Missouri fairway, near the Links of ND. After having their climatic golf experience there, they made haste to get back to St. Louis where they could debrief at St. Louis CC.

[Norbert P]

Garland, I know you are jesting but Lewis and Clark's Corps of Discovery never reached or discovered Yellowstone, but . . . .

" . . .  John Colter, a member of the Corps of Discovery, was probably the first white man
to see the wonders of the future park. Instead of returning to civilization with
the rest of the expedition in 1806, Colter stayed in the West to trap beaver."


Sourced from  . . .   http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:ngGU-70lEt8J:www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/upload/Yell273.pdf+corps+of+discovery+member+yellowstone&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a










 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Slag,

There are a few good photos on their website of the land where Sundoon will be located. Here's a couple, and the link:





http://www.sundoon.wbees.com/page/page/4996591.htm

There is also a 'concept' page, with a few photoshop images. Here's one, and the link to the rest:



http://www.sundoon.wbees.com/page/page/4911738.htm

[Garland Bayley]

Slag,

I am not jesting. The Yellowstone fairway is the Yellowstone river. If you travel I-90/I-94 in Montana you will see the "containment mounding" I referred to as its valley is of course contained. The reverse Missouri fairway is the return trip on the Missouri. They split up on the return trip so that Clark could find and explore the river of the south (Yellowstone) they had seen on the trip to the coast. They rejoined at the confluence of the two rivers which is a little bit west of the Links of ND.

I do hope my memory serves me right and it was Clark on the Yellowstone, not Lewis.

[JMorgan]

Any news yet on when the course will open for play?

[Craig Sweet]

My brain has been plotting a trip all winter....head out after work and drive done to Circling Raven...hit the casino...go to bed..wake up and play Circling Raven...drive down to Pullman and play Palouse...perhaps with Jordan Wall....then head for Wine Valley...arrive..drink wine...lots of wine...go to bed....wake up play Wine Valley....drive back to Spokane and play Indian Canyon...finish round and drive back to Montana...happy...tired...but happy.

[Tom Ferrell]

Wine Valley will open in April/May of this year.

If anyone is attending the Portland (OR) Golf Show this weekend, Wine Valley will have a presence there.  The official website is about to launch (hopefully today).  Will post here as soon as it does.  You're gonna love the photos.   

[Craig Sweet]

Well an April/May opening works out perfectly....for me.  I have weekends free until the college kids get out and then we alternate weekends...I can't wait.

[Tom Ferrell]

www.winevalleygolfclub.com

It's live.

[Garland Bayley]

Hi Tom,

Who did the photos?

[Pete_Pittock]

Hope the opening does not interfere with the King's Putter. Can't wait to get there, this is my most anticipated opening course for 2009.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Play it now before it gets tortured by housing:

http://www.winevalleygolfclub.com/wine-valley-golf-club_master-plan

-Why waste such glorious views, views that connect the golfer with nature and uplift the soul, by surrounding this course with housing?

-How could they opt for such a plan when an alternative, like clustering the housing in one or two areas, was probably a viable option. It boggles my mind that they don't see the inherent, long term value of uncluttering the landscape.

-How could anyone look out over those environs and not be humble enough to recognize that when you are given a gift of such a place you should cherish it and not defile it at every turn with a bunch of disgusting condos and houses. I don't know how anyone could conciously ruin such a beautiful site, and so negatively impact an interesting golf course, by such acts.

I imagine it boils down to hubris and greed.

 

[Kye Goalby]

Play it now before it gets tortured by housing:

http://www.winevalleygolfclub.com/wine-valley-golf-club_master-plan

-Why waste such glorious views, views that connect the golfer with nature and uplift the soul, by surrounding this course with housing?

-How could they opt for such a plan when an alternative, like clustering the housing in one or two areas, was probably a viable option. It boggles my mind that they don't see the inherent, long term value of uncluttering the landscape.



-How could anyone look out over those environs and not be humble enough to recognize that when you are given a gift of such a place you should cherish it and not defile it at every turn with a bunch of disgusting condos and houses. I don't know how anyone could conciously ruin such a beautiful site, and so negatively impact an interesting golf course, by such acts.

I imagine it boils down to hubris and greed.



 

Jim,

I don't know if you are speaking with any knowledge of the situation regarding the housing at Wine Valley other than what you see online, but I spent  a good deal of time on site helping create the course and got to know the owners of the property pretty well.  They, and their families, are some of  the most interesting, genuine and  humble people I have ever met.  Your last statement, as well as the rest of your brazen, seemingly uninformed  assumptions, could not be further from the truth.   Using hubris and greed to describe either one of them is laughable. 

The brothers that own the land have lived and farmed  in the area their whole lives ( and work pretty darn hard too) and I know they appreciate its  natural beauty.  You may also want to investigate the zoning process that went into the lots at Wine Valley before making too many more comments.

They flat out told me while enjoying the sunset over the property and having a few beverages (Don't quote me directly as a few of those nights involved Slag providing Arrogant Bastards)  that they never imagined  the course would end up as good and cool looking as it did, and they were very excited by that.

I think it is great that the course exceeded their expectations and Dan Hixson deserves credit for making that possible.   I would not underestimate how they proceed in the future with the integration of the housing  as they have been pretty successful at a few other things they have done in the past.

Just my two cents.

[Garland Bayley]

http://www.arrogantbastard.com

For those that found the last post confusing.

[Kye Goalby]

Jim,

One other thing....

Should a snowball actually appear in hell and Mary Ann (wife of the farmer/owner)  read this thread on GCA, you should be on the lookout for a tall, attractive blond  woman - either on a horse, hanging out of the sunroof of a Toyota Camry or driving a combine- appearing in your neighborhood.  If any of these seemingly unlikely events occur (even in a dream), I would run, because she will kick your ass!

[Bill_McBride]

http://www.arrogantbastard.com

For those that found the last post confusing.

Or you could figure out a way to ship a few cases of Bellhaven's Best from Scotland! 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Kye,
That was more like four cents. 

If you spent much time helping to create this course, why the heck didn't you stick your two cents in and mention to them that surrounding their course with housing doesn't do the golf any favor, but if you think that surrounding such a wonderful looking golf course (built in such an incredibly beautiful location) with housing is such a good idea, than so be it.

As for the hubris and greed comment, it was my assessment of why this type of development is wrong headed and it wasn't meant to be an opinion of people who I don't even know.


p.s. I sometime insert brunettes or red heads instead of blonds, but I'm always dreaming of tall, beautiful women chasing me with 'evil' intent. In this case I'll keep a lasso and a bottle of Scotch on my person in case I run into the cow girl, and perhaps I can talk her into seeing the light about not 'circling the wagons' around the golf course.

[Norbert P]

Jim, thanks, you woke the sleeping dragon.  Now I'll have to be nice about what I say about the bloke.   

 Greed is a word synonymous in the other Washington . . .  DC. 

Wine Valley is in Washington STATE  . . .   where all the men are strong, the women are good looking and the children are all . . . above average.*


* Yeah, I know. But maybe we'll name a lake at WV Wobegon.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Slag,

I'm not the first guy on this thread to question the impact that several hundred homes will have on the golf course, nor was I the first to suggest 'play it now' before the houses are built.

How about visualizing 20' to 30' high mounding in what are now housing corridors, or how about thousands of 20' to 30' tall trees planted in the same area? They, like housing, would block the off-course views, the wind, and have a negative impact on the golf.
Given the site, can you imagine how laughable those choices would have been? What makes housing a 'better' choice?

Greed can be defined as wanting more of something than is needed, and hubris might be considered as exaggerated self-confidence.   A quick scan through the project list of the land planners, Redstone International,  http://www.redstoneii.com/communityplanning.html, leaves me with the impression that their main concern is maximizing the number of housing sites (greed) and that tenet is their mantra, no mattter the site (hubris).    

As I said, this is my assessment of why this type of development is wrong headed, it's not meant meant to be an opinion of people who I don't even know.

The golf course itself looks great, and the guys who built it should be proud.

[Norbert P]

How about visualizing 20' to 30' high mounding . . . or how about thousands of 20' to 30' tall trees ? They, like housing, would block the off-course views, the wind, and have a negative impact on the golf.

 What makes housing a 'better' choice?

There would be NO golf, in this scenerio, if there were no houses.  I admire your puritanical views on what golfing grounds should present , I have them too, but the realities of sacrficing 700 acres for golf only is very risky for folks who've worked hard their whole lives to achieve what they have.  This is not a corporate land grab, it's real Americans using their resources and taking a chance. 
  I agree that the views are quite amazing, but the golf, even with houses around it, will still bring in the intrepid sportsmen.  And the views FROM the houses should be spectacular.


 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Slag,

My view is hardly puritanical, you missed the whole point of my argument and so did Kye, but you both have been involved with this project so I can understand that.

I have never said I was against including a housing component, only that their present location, i.e. totally encircling many fairways and the course as a whole, detracts from the golf. In general, I'm not even against housing that does encircle a golf course, you can find this type of development carved out of forests most anywhere in America, Florida's littered with them.
I do think it's a waste to take a wide open, stupendous site like this, build a good looking golf course, and then entrap it with housing. It lessens what could have been a tremendous synergy between the golfer and the natural environment, including views and wind.  But I guess there will be some solace for that intrepid golfer who finds his/her way to Walla Walla, knowing that "the views FROM the houses should be spectacular". 

....and there's no need to raise the specter of the 'hard working Americans using their resources and taking a chance'. If I thought my observations and opinions would be hurtful to their economic success I wouldn't say a thing.   

[Kalen Braley]

Jim,

I'm not taking sides here, but I think what they are trying to say is, without homes being built on the course, with thier corresponding values directly related to their close proximity to said course there would be no project.

So you can argue they shouldn't have planned to put the homes where they are, but its likely, if i'm understanding correctly, the golf course would have never been feasible in the 1st place if they couldn't have done this. So you gotta pick your poision I guess....no golf course, or golf course with homes.  Either Or.

In the meantime we'll assume that you'll be up there right away to play the course before said homes ruin the views.