[Tom_Doak]

The first map posted was the preliminary routing; the bottom map is the final routing.  The original 7th was converted to two holes, and the original 15th and 16th were combined into one, with renumbering of the holes in between.

Chip:  The routing change allowed #7 green and #8 tee and #15 green to be on top of the dune with a view of the ocean.  The dune at #7 green was originally about 20 feet higher than it is now ... originally we did not contemplate moving earth at that scale on the primary dune, but we decided to go for it [with Mr. Keiser's approval] the week we started construction.

[Tom Huckaby]

Hot damn this all looks cool... so cool I may even get over my continued objections to the name, which still makes me think EIEIO.

 

And hell yes that 6" thing is for measuring the stymie distance, and is one hell of a good addition - I say leave it on the final scorecard also!   Ole Charlie would definitely approve.

The anticipation for this course is just massive, and will continue to grow for sure as more see it, more word gets out.  The opening of this is gonna be crazy for sure.

So here's a loaded question, Tom:  are you more excited for this one than you were for Pacific Dunes?

I know there's no easy answer for this.  But as a golf consumer - and shoot, many of us where in here discussing it at the time - the anticipation for Pacific was incredible for sure.  I know one and all couldn't wait to see it... me included for sure.  But I am dying to see EIEIO, er, I mean Old Macdonald - I think even more so than Pacific Dunes.  Memory is a tricky thing though.

TH

[Anthony Gray]

  How many holes have ocean views?

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

Hot damn this all looks cool... so cool I may even get over my continued objections to the name, which still makes me think EIEIO.

  What other names were considered?

  Thanks...........Anthony

[Mark Smolens]

We played the 10-hole "course" last month with NO YARDAGE indications. Without taking a census, most of us were thrilled playing no yardage markings - returning to the way golf should be played(?). It seems so appropriate.

Most players would have caddies anyhow and hopefully no rangefinders allowed.

I would vote for no markers on Old Macdonald!

What say you?

The two caddies we had when we played in October would, I believe, wholeheartedly disagree with you on both counts.  You, and Mr. Morrow, are certainly entitled to play without them, but our guys (the caddies) wanted to know the yardages, leaving me to run all over the place with my Bushnell. . .

[Tom Huckaby]

I forgot to vote on the issue of yardage markers....

I say NO.  If ever a place should hearken back to a simpler golf time, this is it. 

Look at it this way also:  those who want easily-obtained distance information (which of course comprises the vast majority of golfers) will still be able to get such, via the use of Bushnells or through the caddies, who certainly can and will create their own charts (or use one provided by the course).  Heck yardage guides could be offered for those who can't live without them either.

Leaving no markings just does make a non-distance aided game so much more doable for those so inclined.  Once you mark a course, either via sprinklerheads or whatever, it's very very hard to ignore the information available.

So my vote is NO on marking sprinklerheads or anything else other than distances on a tee sign; YES for use of Bushnells or yardage guides for those who want them.  This way all can play the game they want to play.  Over time the hope would be that more opt for the use of less distance aids.

Tom H.

[Mark Smolens]

A fair and reasonable compromise.  No metal detectors at the first tee, and I won't have to sneak my Bushnell from my pocket to my eye!

[Anthony Gray]

I forgot to vote on the issue of yardage markers....

I say NO.  If ever a place should hearken back to a simpler golf time, this is it. 

Look at it this way also:  those who want easily-obtained distance information (which of course comprises the vast majority of golfers) will still be able to get such, via the use of Bushnells or through the caddies, who certainly can and will create their own charts (or use one provided by the course).  Heck yardage guides could be offered for those who can't live without them either.

Leaving no markings just does make a non-distance aided game so much more doable for those so inclined.  Once you mark a course, either via sprinklerheads or whatever, it's very very hard to ignore the information available.

So my vote is NO on marking sprinklerheads or anything else other than distances on a tee sign; YES for use of Bushnells or yardage guides for those who want them.  This way all can play the game they want to play.  Over time the hope would be that more opt for the use of less distance aids.

Tom H.

  Tom,

  Welcome to the club. I knew Melvyn would make you a believer. If Melvyn would jump off a bridge I would too.

   Anthony



.

     

[Tom Huckaby]

Anthony:

I am in no club today that I haven't always been a member of.  I have always said that playing sans distance information is a better way to play.  Where I disagreed with Melvyn - and continue to do so - is regarding his insistence on prohibiting use of electronic distance aids on all courses no matter what.  As you can see, I disagree there.  I continue to believe that on courses that are marked, their use speeds up play for those inclined to have exact distances (who would be the main users).  On courses that are not marked - which are few and far between - I still can't see why those who want to use them shouldn't be allowed to do so.  Let all play the game they want to play.

So no, Melvyn likely still tears his hair out at my stance here.

TH

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony:

I am in no club today that I haven't always been a member of.  I have always said that playing sans distance information is a better way to play.  Where I disagreed with Melvyn - and continue to do so - is regarding his advocacy or prohibiting use of electronic distance aids on all courses no matter what.  As you can see, I disagree there.  I continue to believe that on courses that are marked, their use speeds up play for those inclined to have exact distances (who would be the main users).  On courses that are not marked - which are few and far between - I still can't see why those who want to use them shouldn't be allowed to do so.  Let all play the game they want to play.

So no, Melvyn likely still tears his hair out at my stance here.

TH

  I actually agree that the lasers speed up golf. And I agree that if you put markers they will be unavoidable for those that do not want to use them. And I agree The name of the course may not fit.
And I agree....................And I agree.............And I agree.............But I am afraid if I agree with you too much that people will think I am weird. So Pebble is definatly not a ten. It is only a 9.9999999999999.

          Anthony

[Tom Huckaby]

Anthony:

You have all of that very correct - particularly the part about agreeing with me getting one into big trouble. 

TH

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony:

I am in no club today that I haven't always been a member of.
TH

   I would not belong to any club that would have people like me as members.

        Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

Anthony:

I am in no club today that I haven't always been a member of.
TH

   I would not belong to any club that would have people like me as members.

        Anthony

Anthony,

That makes 2 of us...I would not belong to a club that would have you a member either.   

[Chris Kurzner]

Joe,

Thanks for starting the thread.  I'm jealous that I came out there too early to get to play or walk the course this time (sounds like I missed by just a few weeks).

BTW, nice win by the Ducks on Saturday.  Go Gators!!!!

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony:

I am in no club today that I haven't always been a member of.
TH

   I would not belong to any club that would have people like me as members.

        Anthony

Anthony,

That makes 2 of us...I would not belong to a club that would have you a member either.   

  Kalen,

   On a thread the other day Kavanaugh put you , me and Tom H in the same catagory, so that must meen I am on the right track. OR I NEED HELP!

   Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

Anthony,

I don't know if thats a good or a bad thing....but a good piece of advice would be to take whatever JK says with a grain of salt. 

[Rob Rigg]

These yardage discussions are amusing.

It would be brave of Keiser to choose not to put any yardage out on the course since 99% of golfers are obsessed with knowing it.

If caddies had yardage books and there were no markings on the course then that would be an additional reason to take a caddy which is a good thing in some regards.

I don't think golfers should be penalized for not choosing to purchase electronic distance aids. Those things are f'ing expensive.

Would the use of markers at 200/150/100 be a sufficient compromise for the masses? I know it would not for the purists.

The difficult thing about not having yardage on a public course where a guest will only play it once or twice during a visit, is that some people could be 3 or 4 clubs off with distance. Never mind when the wind factor is considered.

On private courses where members play it 50 times a year, I would argue that there is no need for distance markers (you can always provide your guests with, ahem, accurate distance info if needed).

[Tom Huckaby]

Rob:

It's not an easy call, for sure.

I just do go back to two over-riding points:

1.  If ever a course should go toward the traditional, this is it.  They're calling it Old Macdonald for God's sake, honoring a man that the vast majority of golfers have never heard of, but those who have heard of will want to to honor to the full extent, likely by playing as he did.  Either way, education about him has to be part of the effort here.  Thus education about the game as he played and saw it would have to be a worthwhile goal also.  And to this end, that means no distance markings.  But even more importantly....

2. Once ANY markings are there, they are very very difficult to ignore.  If you put in 200/150/100 you might as well mark all the sprinkler heads.  Put any markings in and Charlie's way becomes very problematic.

And you don't have to penalize anyone.. heck they could provide a yardage guide for $5 or less, or hell just give it way to those who want it.  No one MUST purchase a Bushnell nor use a caddie.  Those who want distance information will have it - it will just come out of a book, or via a caddie, or via a Bushnell  instead of via markings on the ground.

Then no one need be fooled.  Those who want to play it Charlie's way can do so - and if they are fooled, well for them that is part of the fun.

TH

[Matt OBrien]

What about coded sprinkler heads that only a caddy would know or you have to buy a yardage book?

[Tom Huckaby]

What about coded sprinkler heads that only a caddy would know or you have to buy a yardage book?

That's what I envisioned, and in fact what I have seen (more or less) on at least two other courses (Ballyneal, Cal Club).  It works very well.  In any case this is what I meant by the above - just don't have numerical yardage information anywhere on the ground.  Do the yardage book / caddie guide however they want (though this way works fine).

TH

[Rob Rigg]

Tom and Matt,

Yes, that does sound like a very good solution - ie) the coded sprinklers or the use of a yardage book if a golfer desires.

I am torn between the fact that "the consumer decides" and how the game should be played in the vision of CBM.

I guess the great thing about Bandon is that since OM is the fourth course and the place is a massive success, Keiser and team could actually do whatever they want.

No markers George!  (unless they are coded)

[Anthony Gray]

  I agree.

[Tom Huckaby]

Rob - I think the beauty of our suggestion is that if you do it this way, the consumer DOES decide - he plays with or without distance information as he sees fit.  Mark the course and you've made a decision for a certain group of consumers, who in fact might be the prime users of this course, since you've made it so darn difficult to play without distance information.

TH

[Anthony Gray]

  I agree.

[Michael Dugger]

Guys,

All this talk about yardages.

Makes me wonder, and answer honestly, what player can post a score without knowing yardages? 

I "get" the notion of not having any, a la Friar's Head.  But even then, those who play the course over and over again are eventually going to map out a yardage guide in their head.  They'll think, "I know it's 140 to the front of the green from this little shrub" and things like that.

But this knowledge only comes from playing a course again and again. 

I'm not a big fan of crazy complex yardage books and laser rangefinders and what not, but what's wrong with something as simple as yardages on a sprinkler head measured to the front of the green? 

That and flagsticks which are changed based on front, middle and back pin locations seems all any course ever needs.

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