[Tom Huckaby]

George my friend, thanks for this.

But I don't get one part of it... isn't no carts a given?  Or are they seriously considering
adding carts at this course?

Good god, say it isn't so.  Again, I am one of the staunchest defenders of the use of carts in general.
They make golf doable at sites on which it would be stupid to play otherwise.

But NOT AT BANDON!

Please please please tell me this was just hypothetical discussion.

Then as for the yardage issue... you have my vote, expressed many times
as I tried to defend it.  No markings, but provide a yardage guide and let whoever
wants use a Bushnell.

TH

[George_Bahto]

Huck - NO Carts at the course - hope I didn't mislead you. Glad you're on board for no markers but I think it will be tough to get an OK - a single 150 plate works for me also

[Tom Huckaby]

George:

WHEW!

As for the no distance markings, heck a single 150 plate is a very fine compromise.  Those who
want the older game can just play off of that... it's not like certain defined distances don't
get known over time at all courses anyway.

I just do think it would be an opportunity lost if it were marked just the same as nearly
all other courses.

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

How about just a single barber-pole at 150 in the dead center of the fairway.

Personally, I HATE when they are placed to indicate preferred lines.

Just stick one out there in the center and let US have the freedom and judgement to figure out what line to try.

[Rob Rigg]

The reality of the OM course would dictate that knowing distance is probably not nearly as important as being able to play with feel.

It is not like you will be able to fly a 5 iron in and have it hop once and come to a full stop. F&F courses in the wind . . . 

The first time you see the course it will be a total adventure whether you have distance or not. In many ways it might be beneficial to "feel" your way around the course and take in the undulations, knobs, banks, etc.

You cannot perform well on a links course trying to hit to a number - eg) 153 = hard 8 iron - you have to think - eg) bump and run a 5, etc.

Plate in the fairway, yardage book, whatever - unless it is a calm day, it probably won't help you a lot anyways.

[George_Bahto]

Rob - for OM, you hit it qall points right on the head!!

fast and firm - feel golf - bump it - putt it - you're not going to lob a dart very often

[Joe Bentham]

GeorgeB--
I agree with everything Rob said.  I've spent time arguing his point over the years in here and at the resort.  Exact yardages are of less use on links then the golf most Americans play the overwhelming majority of the time.  The problem is they are conditioned to think all of this is necessary to the game, and most can't function without.  Golfers don't become Old Tom Morris at the North Bend airport.  Its enough that we have them walking, I don't think we can ask for or expect miracles.
Could you honestly handicap the chances of Old Mac opening in June '10 with no yardages on the course?  I appreciate your participation in this thread.

[Joe Bentham]

7 tee

down in front of the fairway bunker looking up towards the green

left side of green looking up towards 8 tee

from the same spot looking north west

up on 8 tee looking back at 7 green and looking south west


Again I wish these pictures did some of this justice, they don't.  Really special spot at a really special spot.

[Dan Boerger]

The course looks awesome, and one that I will play (God willing) one day.

I can understand the reason for no carts -- assures a significant caddie business.

No yardage markers makes less sense to me. I can't imagine any significant portion of their target market would find this an interesting nuance of the course. Most, I suspect, would find it annoying. The stymie gauge is a conversation piece (albeit a tad silly IMO).

[JC Jones]

These last two pictures (and I've only seen both courses in pictures) remind me of RCD.

[Tom_Doak]

There is no way they're not going to put the yardages on the sprinkler heads at Old Macdonald.  It would be impossible to defend since they've done it on the other courses.  Too many people would complain ... and neither Mr. Keiser nor Kemper Sports likes the idea of causing customers to complain.

If you want to play without yardages, you can just go up to The Sheep Ranch.  But don't tell anybody!

[Tom_Doak]

PS to Kyle H.:  The sixth hole is 570 yards from the back tee (even longer from an unlisted tee behind #5 green, I think).  But, that is the starting hole on the temporary scorecard -- the last box on the right lists the actual hole #, but the ten-hole loop goes 6-7-8-9-10-11-14-3-4-5.

[JC Jones]

There is no way they're not going to put the yardages on the sprinkler heads at Old Macdonald.  It would be impossible to defend since they've done it on the other courses.  Too many people would complain ... and neither Mr. Keiser nor Kemper Sports likes the idea of causing customers to complain.

Well, Joe and George, I guess that discussion is over....

[Anthony Gray]

  So how many of the holes have ocean views?

   Anthony

[Tom Huckaby]

JC - it ain't over until WE say it's over.  Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?  And ain't over now.  Cuz when the going gets tough....... .......... ............ ...........

the tough get going!  Who's with me???

 

Seriously:  Tom, you and George could certainly lobby Mr. Keiser.  And although it would be different and certain guests might initially complain, isn't the POINT of the course to be different?  Why have that sign that Pacific Dunes golfers see now?  Why name it Old Macdonald?  Why try to design it as you are, channeling old Charlie?

If Mr. Keiser wanted another great course, I'm certain you could provide it.  But it sure seems to this consumer that what he wants is a great AND UNIQUE course.  There's a real opportunity to drive home the unique part.  Oh, I'm sure in the design and how it plays it will be quite unique anyway.  But leaving off the distance markings really hammers it home.  And any guest that complains can just be shown how to use a yardage guide... thereby increasing the education.

So sayeth this consumer, who obviously knows nothing about how Mr. Keiser works, but does dare to dream.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Hmmm...and to think this whole time I thought it was the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor.  I guess them history books need re-writing.   

[Tom Huckaby]

Hmmm...and to think this whole time I thought it was the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor.  I guess them history books need re-writing.   

Please tell me you have seen Animal House.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

One thing you guys don't seem to understand or miss are the great efforts taken at Bandon to keep play flowing.  I would much prefer yardage markers on sprinkler heads to one more Dead Head standing on a dune counting mississippies between groups.

[Tom Huckaby]

I most definitely understand that and addressed it earlier.  Play would be no slower.

TH

[JC Jones]

One thing you guys don't seem to understand or miss are the great efforts taken at Bandon to keep play flowing.  I would much prefer yardage markers on sprinkler heads to one more Dead Head standing on a dune counting mississippies between groups.
[/quote

Dont let your jealousy cloud your opinions

[John Kavanaugh]

I most definitely understand that and addressed it earlier.  Play would be no slower.

TH

Yea, no slower for this group of picture taking over analyzing one up pith mouthed non score caring what did you shoot bastards.  Cause it can't get any slower.  I simply can not imagine anything worse than playing this course with a bunch of GCAers who want to prove their knowledge between during and after each shot.

[Anthony Gray]

   For all of those that disagree with my hero Tom Huckaby. Because I always agree. If he says the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour, THEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOUR!!!!!!!!!!
















       

[Tom Huckaby]

I most definitely understand that and addressed it earlier.  Play would be no slower.

TH

Yea, no slower for this group of picture taking over analyzing one up pith mouthed non score caring what did you shoot bastards.  Cause it can't get any slower.  I simply can not anything worse than playing this course with a bunch of GCAers who want to prove their knowledge between during and after each shot.

The excellent spelling and grammar in this only serves to underscore the stereotyping and universal offense.  Yep, we all play this way, always.  Sure we do.  And this course will be populated with nothing but participants from this website.  Uh huh.

In any case, it is usually best to ignore this particular participant, but I feel compelled to quote it as a legacy his "genius".

TH


ps - Anthony - thanks - maybe Kalen will get it now....

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck,

The pace of play of a design has very much to do with the issue at hand.  If a design causes so much picture taking or discussion that it hampers the enjoyment of a round than you either have to change the design or the behavior of its players.  I say leave the design alone.

The stereotype that this group plays too slow is accurate and can be proven every time I show up to play.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

The pace of play of a design has very much to do with the issue at hand.  If a design causes so much picture taking or discussion that it hampers the enjoyment of a round than you either have to change the design or the behavior of its players.  I say leave the design alone.

The stereotype that this group plays too slow is accurate and can be proven every time I show up to play.

There is no win with this participant - he knows no depth to which he won't sink - thus as I say it is typically wisest to ignore him.

But this time he raises two decent points.  But each are easily answered:

1.  I am not opining on the impact of the design on pace of play; that is not the issue here.  The issue is if how the course is marked will effect pace of play.  And I fully believe that a well-designed yardage guide will allow play to go as fast as would marked sprinkler heads.  I also never suggested changing the design.   

2.  Yes this group does play quite slow at large outings.   So yes, if a large outing occurs at this course, expect play to be slower than normal.   But basing how the course is marked on what THIS GROUP does seems beyond silliness to me.  How many outings from this group will happen?  One?  Two? 

TH

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