[Joe Bentham]

[PThomas]

I wonder if Mr. Urbina will be designing a course on his own someday?   perhaps in the very near future?

[Jon Nolan]

Winter rules?

[RSLivingston_III]

Interesting... are they pushing playing stymies during matches? I wonder how many two balls are allowed out on the course?

[Joe Bentham]

Jon--
I played off a mat, as all caddie play is this time of year.

Ralph--
I've always thought all of our courses lent themselves to match play.  Although I don't think the stymie is going to catch on anytime soon (neither is match play, unfortunately). 
Guest play will start on a limited basis in April of next year.

[Bruce Leland]

Anybody else notice the misprint of the 9 hole course par?  Par 39??  By my count, one par 5 and two par threes equals 35

[Peter Pallotta]

You're missing one extra Par 4, Bruce - it's presently a 10 hole course/card

Peter

[Joe Bentham]

pictures of the top half of number 3

Tom Jefferson said all that needs to be said about the snags in an earlier post, IMO.

Joe, Brad, and others;In all my many and growing-longer-in-the-tooth years, a wandering lifetime spent gathering memories in the majesty of the natural world........well, that snag..... is close to the pinnacle, for me at least, of tree form, texture, character and beauty.Iconic.Yes, possibly it seems an added complex element, being asked to drive through those goal posts, .........but just think of the history that tree has been sentinal to, the intensity of a hundred winters of wind, the sounds that it's simple standing there has offered.............and will offer to each of us as we walk into the majesty of this new links!  Imagine the nests and the eagles perched there, the gathering of crows in the night, the owls, gulls gathered against the storms offshore.....do you know how many pileated woodpeckers have taken up there, and will still??Think of that!  And then drop any notion, any talk or mere mention, of removal.When one stands there and puts a hand on that wind burnished surface, soft spruce polished into art, a hand against that surface that has faced countless western suns........consider!Think of the opportunity to be moved by beauty all who walk by will have.....a priceless game in a transcendent place, gilded by a chance to witness that stark form!!For what purpose that trumps all that would we consider it's removal a good thing??Think of what the poet would say.........think of what John Kavanaugh would say! (no, maybe not that!)That's all I got!  Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!Tom

And gentlemen let me tell you, my pictures don't begin to do any of this justice.   I think the second shot into this green might be the 'coolest' shot I've ever hit.  I also think its a shot that encapsulates a lot of what is out there

[Bruce Leland]

You're missing one extra Par 4, Bruce - it's presently a 10 hole course/card

Peter

Very observant Peter, thank you, I stand corrected.  My background of tallying tournament scores in quick fashion by comparing hole scores to 4's got in my line of sight! 

[RSLivingston_III]

Jon--
I played off a mat, as all caddie play is this time of year.

Ralph--
I've always thought all of our courses lent themselves to match play.  Although I don't think the stymie is going to catch on anytime soon (neither is match play, unfortunately). 
Guest play will start on a limited basis in April of next year.

Joe

I saw the 6" measurement on the card and assumed it was for use with stymies during match play. That has been the traditional reason it was placed there.
If your not encouraging playing stymies why is it there?
If your playing stymies that implies two ball matches.

Being a hickory player I whole heartedly support it.

[Joe Bentham]

Jon--
I played off a mat, as all caddie play is this time of year.

Ralph--
I've always thought all of our courses lent themselves to match play.  Although I don't think the stymie is going to catch on anytime soon (neither is match play, unfortunately). 
Guest play will start on a limited basis in April of next year.

Joe

I saw the 6" measurement on the card and assumed it was for use with stymies during match play. That has been the traditional reason it was placed there.
If your not encouraging playing stymies why is it there?
If your playing stymies that implies two ball matches.

Being a hickory player I whole heartedly support it.

Ralph
My Granddad always told me one of your goals every day should be to learn something.  I am in your gratitude for helping me achieve that goal for today.  You've sparked my interest.  What would the measurement be used for?

[George_Bahto]

We played the 10-hole "course" last month with NO YARDAGE indications. Without taking a census, most of us were thrilled playing no yardage markings - returning to the way golf should be played(?). It seems so appropriate.

Most players would have caddies anyhow and hopefully no rangefinders allowed.

I would vote for no markers on Old Macdonald!

What say you?

[Michael Moore]

The card says "Course Architect - Tom Doak and Jim Urbina".

Is this a typo or meaningful synecdoche?

[Kevin_Reilly]

To Joe Bentham...see the various references to '6 inches' in this timeline of the Mucci Stymie Rule on ruleshistory.com:

The Stymie
A stymie was possible only in matches involving one ball per side.  On the putting green, if two players' balls were more than six inches apart, there was no provision for the ball nearer the hole to be lifted.   If that ball lay directly in the way to the hole of the ball to be played then the player was 'stymied.'

He could try to play around or over the interfering ball, but if the nearer ball was struck, no penalty ensued. However, the opponent had the option of playing the ball as it lay or replacing it.   If the nearer ball had been knocked into the hole the opponent was considered to have holed out with his previous stroke.

The stymie was really born by default. In the original rules of 1744 only when balls were touching could one be lifted.

This was adjusted by the Gentlemen Golfers Of Leith in 1775 to touching or within 6 inches of each other.

1789 Gentlemen Golfers introduced this rule: 'In all time coming, in case in playing over the links any ball shall lye in the way of his opponent's the distance of six inches upon the hole green, it shall be in the power of the party playing to cause his opponent to move said ball'.

1812: St Andrews re-worded the rule slightly, but the principle of the stymie remained:  'When the balls lie within six inches of one another, the ball nearest the hole must be lifted till the other is played, but on the putting green it shall not be lifted, although within six inches, unless it lie directly between the other and the hole'.

1830 Montrose code specified that the rule did not apply to stroke play or four-balls.

Sept 1833 St Andrews Golfers voted to abolish it, but it was reinstated the following year (by the now R&A) as 'When the balls lie within six inches of each other in any situation the ball nearest the hole to be lifted until the other is played'.

The word stymie only appeared in the rules rarely: Musselburgh 1834, 1851 and 1858 R&A, applied to all stroke play. The USGA used the term in notes to Rule 31 in 1938 and 1947.  However, all the rules books of the 20th century, up to its abolition, used 'Stymie' in the index.

1891 R&A rules vaguely tried to remove the stymie from stroke play, stating that the ball may be lifted by the owner if he felt that it may be of advantage to the other player, or 'throughout the green' a player could have any ball lifted which might interfere with his stroke - but 'throughout the green' was not defined.
1899 Stroke Rule 11 and Medal Rule 9 stated the same thing.

The wording was made much clearer in 1902.

1920 USGA had a one-year trial of allowing the stymied player to concede his opponent's next putt.

1938 USGA introduced a modified stymie rule, initially for a trial period of two years, allowing a ball within 6 ins of the hole to be lifted if it was interfering, regardless of distance between balls. The rule was subsequently made permanent from 1941.

1950 abolished by USGA completely, but the organisations affiliated to the R&A were not inclined to do away with it.

Finally abolished worldwide in the joint rules of 1952. Now, lifting on the putting green was at option of owner or opponent if it was felt that the ball would interfere or be of assistance.

1956 In match play, the rule was changed such that the ball nearer the hole could only be lifted at the request of the player about to play.   In effect, the player about to play had 'control' over his opponent's ball.

From 1984, a ball may be lifted if it may interfere with or assist another player in all forms of play.
A small echo of the stymie can still be found in the Rules - on the putting green if a player's putt strikes an opponent's ball, there is no penalty in match play but it's a two-stroke penalty in stroke play.

[Joe Bentham]

We played the 10-hole "course" last month with NO YARDAGE indications. Without taking a census, most of us were thrilled playing no yardage markings - returning to the way golf should be played(?). It seems so appropriate.

Most players would have caddies anyhow and hopefully no rangefinders allowed.

I would vote for no markers on Old Macdonald!

What say you?

Personally I'm for it.  Professionally I'd be for it.  And if there was a course that was going to do it I'd think it would be this one.  But I'm afraid it is a purely academic discussion, and I think we all know that.  It would be worth it for the variances on 8 tee alone, though.

Some pictures of 4:
just short of a good drive on 4.  Cant really make out all the bunkers in this picture, let alone all the undulation in the fairway.

front left of the green looking back down towards the front.

looking back from the green towards the tee.  All the fairway bunkering disappears.
   

[Tom_Doak]

Michael Moore:

That's what happens when you let Jim Urbina design the temporary scorecard.

The stymie gauge was also Jim's idea, I presume.  I showed it to him years ago from an old club that still had it, and explained that's why most old scorecards were exactly 6 inches wide.  I don't know why they made a 6 1/2 inch scorecard here and put a stymie gauge on it ... I guess it's just so a bunch more people will learn an esoteric fact.

[Mike Sweeney]

For those wondering what a stymie gauge was:

http://www.lakejovitagolfcc.com/home_history.aspx

[PCCraig]

OM looks really cool. As I have said before on here it looks more like a true links course than the other 3 courses at Bandon.

[Mike_Cirba]

Yardage Markers?!

We don't need no stinkin' yardage markers!   

[Mike_Cirba]

Better still..

Yardage Markers?!

Don't talk about Yardage Markers! Are you kidding me? Yardage Markers?!

I'm just hoping we can play the new course soon, another new course!"

[John Foley]

Love the snag & love Tom Jefferson's post even more!!

I like the logo also - was it someone from the collective which came up with it?

Tom D -  Is there a course map / rendering you can post?

Those us not lucky enough to get to the Pacific NW for the preview wouild love to see it and even more photo's

[Matthew Hunt]

I am LOVING CB's quote!

[Eric Smith]

I like the logo.

I thought of this one at first glance -

[Jeff Doerr]

Love the snag & love Tom Jefferson's post even more!!

I like the logo also - was it someone from the collective which came up with it?

Tom D -  Is there a course map / rendering you can post?

Those us not lucky enough to get to the Pacific NW for the preview wouild love to see it and even more photo's

John, here is the early map posted and the current map posted.

Early Map




Current Map

[Chip Gaskins]

Tom/Jim-

Looking at the layout map, did you intentionally not use ocean front property for holes or was the land adjacent (behind the PD #13 green) not suitable?

Looks awesome,
Chip

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