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Tim Gavrich

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Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« on: November 26, 2008, 03:08:21 PM »
Biggest golf resort in the world with 12 courses, hotels, restaurants, etc...

Has anyone been there?  Some of the courses look pretty interesting..are they?  The World Cup is being held on the Olazabal course, which looks okay, if a bit over-bunkered.  The Zhang Liang-Wei course is an 18 hole par three course with what looks like five or six MacRaynor template holes, including a mini-Biarritz.  There are also imitations of Riviera #6, Pebble Beach #17 and a few others.

I didn't get much help from the search function; curious as to thoughts from those who've heard about it or been there themselves.

Cheers, Happy Thanksgiving.

--Tim
Senior Writer, GolfPass

John Mayhugh

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 03:55:30 PM »
I've had lunch at the resort and seen a little bit of the golf course, but never played there (or anywhere else in China).  Rather impressive facility.  Really interesting thing was the floodlights that they have to light some of the courses for night play.

That's also the place that I learned I really don't like Chinese food as much as I thought I did.   ;D

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 07:38:53 PM »
Tim--I've been invited over, but haven't made the long trip.  I have had numerous delaings with the principals, and know a bit about the project.

From what I understand, the team of Scmidt/Curley has truly masterminded all the GC's, and lay them on the ground in the "style" of the namesake architect.  (Though what style a Duval, Olazabal, and Annika Course has I couldn't tell you--never seen a one..)

Brad Klein

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 07:41:40 PM »
Going next week for the Asia-Pacific Golf Conference there and will be filing reports from Mission Hills.

Tom Naccarato

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 08:25:04 PM »
I'm having dinner with Brian Curley tonight, and then reprising our annual Curley Cup Challenge tomorrow and Friday at Goose Creek. (an annual Turkey Day ritual) Pat Burke will be acting as either refree or tag team partner in this match.

I will alert Brian of this post, and maybe get some more 411.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 08:40:24 PM »
Paging Matt Sullivan (who lives in Beijing)

Ryan Farrow

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 08:50:43 PM »
Tommy, make sure you ask Brian about the Condor. I think you will like it.

Tom Naccarato

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 08:52:38 PM »
Will do!

harley_kruse

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 11:55:28 PM »
Brad

I will be at Mission Hills next week also for the conference.

Look forward ot a chance to meet. I'd be hapy to show you around some holes of the Norman Course which was my baby for a while and done from here in Sydney

Harley K

Ryan Farrow

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2008, 12:23:08 AM »
Tim, I'm sorry but I really can't add anything. I have never been there, although that will change in the next few months. So I can't give you an opinion on the golf just yet. All I can really say is the project was massive and the site(s) was nowhere near suitable for golf. A lot needed to be done just to create areas where golf holes could be reasonably built. I'll be sure to update when I get my chance to visit the resort. If Brian has anything to add i'll pass it along..... or Tommy will.

Rob Rigg

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2008, 01:32:37 AM »
I was supposed to be staying at the Royal Lagoon next to Mission Hills in a couple of weeks and was hoping to march next door and get a round or two in.

Unfortunately "the man" has but a kybosh on our travel budget. Son of a . . .

Looking forward to reading about the various courses (it's like golf Disneyland for f's sake!)


Pat Burke

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2008, 02:29:36 AM »
I'm having dinner with Brian Curley tonight, and then reprising our annual Curley Cup Challenge tomorrow and Friday at Goose Creek. (an annual Turkey Day ritual) Pat Burke will be acting as either refree or tag team partner in this match.

I will alert Brian of this post, and maybe get some more 411.
tying to find my black and white striped jersey :P

Matt_Sullivan

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2008, 09:04:36 AM »
Hi Bill

How are you doing? Shane says hi. We're still in Beijing and have played a lot of golf in China but never at Mission Hills. So nothing helpful to add to the discussion!

Regards

Matt

Bill_McBride

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2008, 01:19:53 PM »
Hi Bill

How are you doing? Shane says hi. We're still in Beijing and have played a lot of golf in China but never at Mission Hills. So nothing helpful to add to the discussion!

Regards

Matt

Matt and Shane, we are struggling with the economy but so is everyone else in America.  I hope things are better in China!  Great memories of you guys in Scotland in March 2007, I will never forget what a trooper Shane was when the Honorable Company made her eat lunch in the captain's office!  That was a great trip.

Bill

Abe Summers

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2008, 06:01:30 PM »
I haven't been there myself yet, but I have heard from friends who have that most of the courses are not very memorable.  There is, however, a Norman course that sounds interesting and plays to a very high slope rating.  I have also heard the clubhouse and other facilities are quite nice.   

The group that built the initial courses made boatloads of money at M. Hills is now in the midst of building 18 courses at once(!!) on Hainan Island, and plan to build 100 in the near future.

Brad Klein

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2008, 01:17:46 AM »
Harley, I'll be at the conference the whole time. I'm giving one of the early presentations, about principles of sound design and what works (and doesn't work) in getting courses taken seriously from an architecture/judgment standpoint. Then on a panel about renovation. Hope to meet you there and certainly hope to tour some of those golf courses.

Matt Sullivan, you're only 1,200 miles away in Beijing. You should make the day trip.

Matt_Sullivan

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2008, 08:38:17 AM »
Brad, of course I normally would ;-)

 But I am in India for a couple of weeks (Delhi not Mumbai, thankfully)

I've played a couple of places down that way (Shenzhen) but never Mission Hills -- it's too expensive!

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2008, 11:17:42 PM »
Things we bet you did not know about Mission Hills, the Chinese venue for golf's World Cup
FROM THE US PGA TOUR WEBSITE
By Laury Livsey, PGA TOUR Staff

DONGGUAN, China -- Turn to the Guinness Book of World Records, skip past the picture of the fat twins sitting on the motorcycles, ignore the entry about the oldest guy in history to tandem-parachute and forget about finding out how tall Robert Pershing Wadlow was and eventually you'll find a listing in the seminal tome for "The Largest Golf Club in the World."

While Bjarne Maeland may have parachuted from a plane at the tender age of 100 and Wadlow checked in just an inch under 9 feet, Mission Hills Golf Club, it of the 12 golf courses spread over two Chinese cities -- Shenzhen and Dongguan -- holds the Guinness distinction, surpassing the Pinehurst resort in North Carolina.

Yes, Mission Hills is the largest in the world, thanks to Dr. David Chu, the brains and money behind the complex, and Chu's coterie of course designers: Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Annika Sorenstam, Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Nick Faldo, Jose Maria Olazabal, David Duval, Jumbo Ozaki, Zhang Lian-wei, David Leadbetter and Pete Dye.

Besides the star-studded lineup of architects, the folks at the complex located in Guangdong Province are also happy to point out that while it took Pinehurst 100 years to add its eighth course, No. 12 came on board at Mission Hills in the tenth year of the club's existence.
So, in honour of the Golden Bear, the Big Easy, Jumbo, Ms. 59, the Great White Shark, Ollie and everybody else who put their touches on designs here, we give you 12 fun facts, one for every course at Mission Hills (what, you thought we were going to come up with 216 items, one for each hole at the place?).

• The 12 Mission Hills courses employ 2,500 caddies -- all female and all in their late teens or early 20s -- who live in club-provided dormitories, six per room. With attrition factored in, the club recruits approximately 150 to 200 new caddies every year. Coco Hu from Hunan Province, has been a caddie for six years, starting when she was 18. She caddies an average of 23 rounds a month and has started to play golf herself. "I get to play once a month, and I'm still learning," she said. "The Annika Course is my favorite because it's the course done by a woman."

• Every caddie attends Mission Hills' Caddie Training Academy before ever toting a bag for real. The CTA is a three-and-a-half month school that introduces the fledgling caddies to a sport almost all of them knew nothing about before they began their employment. They first learn golf terminology in Chinese (Can you say "rescue club" in Mandarin?) and then learn the English equivalent. It's safe to say that most of the caddies who enter the program don't know a sand wedge from a sand castle. But a little more than 90 days later, and they're good to go. "I had not even heard about Tiger Woods before I began," says Katie Xia from Chongqing in the Sichuan Province, who has been caddying since 2006.

• The caddies all wear red trousers and red jackets because red in China is considered a lucky color. The club also offers, at additional cost to golfers, "golden" caddies, who happen to be the best and most-experienced among the 2,500. They wear gold uniforms because it is the color of royalty in China.

• Because of the distances between many of the greens and tees at all the courses, a caddie and cart are mandatory. Also in the distance department, so big is the course that 15 kilometers (a little more than nine miles) separate the Olazabal Course, site of this week's OMEGA Mission Hills World Cup, from the Nicklaus Course, the host of the 1995 World Cup, the first time professional golf came to Mission Hills.

• The first five courses built at Mission Hills had a distinct purpose behind them. They were designed by five men from different parts of the world: Nicklaus (North America), Els (Africa), Singh (Oceania), Ozaki (Asia) and Faldo (Europe).

• At the facility's Shenzhen clubhouse, a cement-and-marble staircase was torn apart, moved to a different location and rebuilt after a feng shui expert came in and decided it wasn't in keeping with the Chinese art or practice of positioning objects to promote positive or negative effects. We'll guess that particular set of stairs fell into the "negative" category.

• Feng shui (the Chinese words for "wind" and "water") also is the reason why the main entry doors to the Dongguan clubhouse never close during operating hours -- regardless of the weather. It also explains why Mission Hills' workers carry battery-operated, tennis racquet-looking devices to zap flies that dare enter the premises.

• What are the chances "Caddyshack" would have been as funny had Carl Spackler had to worry about large, undomesticated game animals instead of gophers? While the rodents of the big screen caused all sorts of trouble at fictional Bushwood Country Club, the biggest mischief-makers at Mission Hills are wild boars living in the nearby jungles. The tusked, omnivores come out at night and occasionally dig up the course. In case you were wondering, yes, ham, pork and bacon dishes are available in various Mission Hills restaurants.

• During the building of the Faldo course, a local farmer told construction workers to stop what they were doing so he could sort out an issue that was causing him some concern. While the farmer allowed that the property where a lake near his farm was located did belong to the club, he insisted the fish inside the lake were his. After some negotiations, Mission Hills administration capitulated, allowed the man to get out his nets, catch the fish and transplant them in a lake on his property.

• Five of Mission Hills' courses -- Norman, Leadbetter, Annika, Duval and Olazabal -- were built simultaneously. From start to finish, construction of the 90 holes took 14 months. "We had 30,000 labourers on site during that time," said Glenn Stokes, a native of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Canada, and Mission Hills' golf operations manager. "It was something to see."

• In 2007, the courses saw more than 504,000 rounds played over 365 days. In 2008, the 12 Mission Hills courses are tracking just ahead of that figure with five weeks left in the year.

• Japan, Korea and Australia have more golfers traveling to Mission Hills to play than any other countries. Coco Hu acknowledges, though, that the best score she ever witnessed while caddying was a 63 on the Annika Course by a man from just down the road in Hong Kong. No word on what Coco's tip was that day

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2008, 01:14:58 AM »
Oddly enough we had a wild boar/pig issue in Lafayette, La at Oakbourne Cc a few years ago. They came out of a nearly swamp. The super staff ate very well in the end but the course took a beating for a few weeks.

Rick Sides

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2008, 10:08:32 AM »
Does anybody no if this is a private facility and what membership costs or if its public, what are fees?

Carl Rogers

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2008, 11:29:29 AM »
Does anybody really know the economic viability of this mega investment.  Who is putting the initial capital up for all of this?  Or is it a "if you build it, they will come".

Who will critique Ms. Sorenstam' course?  No free passes or platitudes, please.

Kerry Gray

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 12:13:02 AM »
I live in China, although I spend most of my time near Shanghai.
I have been many times and have played several of the courses. Not all are very interesting. The Nicklaus course is pretty standard fare for him but is good. A few holes I like alot including one short par 4.
The Faldo course is ok, complete with island green of course.
The facility is the Vegas of golf. Everything is bigger and bolder.
The business plan is extensive. Their is housing, my friends are members from Hong Kong who bought a condo on the property. They leave the office on Friday catch one of many shuttle buses from Hong Kong to Mission Hills and stay and play all weekend. Many of the real estate members are Hong Kong folk who appreciate easy access to golf courses. It has Tennis, health clubs, restaurants, hotels, etc.
It is not cheap. guest rounds are usually over 100USD. Membership starts at over 100K USD as well if i recall so I think they financial footing is ok. I usually play on Mondays and it pretty busy even then. Keep in mind that Shenzhen is still one of the fastest growing cities in the world, and will likely emerge as one of the richest in the next 20 years. Not bad for a place that had about 300,000 fisherman in 1979.

It's certainly not what I want in a member club but a few of the courses are good and it does have alot to offer.
Now Annika's course is very picturesque and playable.
And the Norman course is hard. Even many of the Chinese members I speak with have already learned that difficulty does not make for interesting repeated play. But I think Norman delivered what the owner wanted, a stern test.
I am not certian what they are planning for the two new courses, although I doubt they will be minimalist or great.

Shanghai corespondent.
Kerry



Jim Nugent

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2008, 12:18:56 AM »
A recent article said Mission Hills just fired 30% of its work force.  Any info on that?

Abe Summers

Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2008, 01:26:35 AM »
Yes, Jim, I work near Shanghai at Nine Dragons, and I contacted the head of the Omega China Tour after hearing that rumor.    He confirmed it. 

I am sure there are many managers in China who are having their share of Schadenfreude after hearing that news.   The first article I read about it was posted here:  http://www.examiner.com/x-755-Golf-Examiner~y2008m12d11-Golf-looks-to-Asia-for-future-growth-but-lack-of-access-impedes-progress

Was there anyone else from GCA at this conference?  Love to hear your opinions...

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Mission Hills Resort--Shenzhen, China
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2010, 04:26:23 PM »

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