[Tim Gavrich]

Would a Biarritz-style green complex work on a sub-150 yard hole?

If you scaled down the green a little bit, you could make it possible to hit an accurate, high short-iron or a low running mid-iron.  I know I'd potentially entertain the thought of hitting a low skipping 7-iron as opposed to a high, full 9-iron on such a hole.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tim,

I think it works fine at the Wilderness at Fortune Bay on a short 4 with even a shorter approach shot. I have played both the run up and pitch to both front and back pins there.  My gut says there is a length where the choice would be between hybrid and a low long iron with the idea of punching it up the back pin in a wind being more attractive.  When buiding a recent Biaritz, which requires a driver a shaper talked me into building a reverse slope front deck and approach area to help get the shot there, which I think is a nice twist under the circumstance.

[Bill_McBride]

The 16th at Southern Dunes south of Orlando - Steve Smyers' very interesting course there with many strategic holes and great bunkers - is a par 5 with a Biarritz green.  The 3rd shot is not too long, the green is reachable for the big hitters.  The swale really defends the green, I was impressed by the hole.

[JohnV]

The 5th at Bandon Trails is almost a Biarritz with the deep swale in the middle.

[TEPaul]

"Would a Biarritz-style green complex work on a sub-150 yard hole?"


I don't think so but I think what would work great would be a Road Hole green with the narrow side pointing right at the tee and about 140-150 to that narrow front and about 190 to the much wider back. Combine that with that green's chipping area left, a Road Hole pot bunker halfway down on the left and the big deep Road bunker all along the right.

Frankly, I think NGLA's #1, #3, #8, #10, #11, #12, #17 could make great par 3 conceptual iterations! I would even like to try #11 green as a really short par 3 from a tee directly behind it. I would also like to use the "Short's" green (#6) somewhere as a par 3 or a par 5 green coming from the right of it.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tim:

What a wonderful question if for no other reason that it reveals the bias of many people here. They view a  hole through their own abilities.

Of course a Biarritz of that length would work, specifically for short hitters. For many of those same people, the existing longer Biarritz greens can not even be reached. Also, I think it would be a wonderful hole in the sense that  those who could fly their shots to correct tier could be severely penalized for a slightly errant shot.

Anthony

[Kenny Baer]

I think it would work; I would ask why wouldn't it?  Unless a front pin was 100 yds then it could still play relatively long.

I think it is a great idea and would love the chance to play a biarritz at say 135 front to 165-170 back. 

[Bill_McBride]

"Would a Biarritz-style green complex work on a sub-150 yard hole?"


I don't think so but I think what would work great would be a Road Hole green with the narrow side pointing right at the tee and about 140-150 to that narrow front and about 190 to the much wider back. Combine that with that green's chipping area left, a Road Hole pot bunker halfway down on the left and the big deep Road bunker all along the right.

Frankly, I think NGLA's #1, #3, #8, #10, #11, #12, #17 could make great par 3 conceptual iterations! I would even like to try #11 green as a really short par 3 from a tee directly behind it. I would also like to use the "Short's" green (#6) somewhere as a par 3 or a par 5 green coming from the right of it.

But what about putting the tee for #13 off to the left of the #12 green so it plays more like #7 TOC?  (This is a Mucccian proposal)

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