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Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2008, 06:30:30 PM »
Jim
Yours was exactly my point.  One can bail left off the tee, but either have a tree in the way or be looking at the road for the second shot.  TomP applauds the current setup because apparently that is the way it has always been.  Maybe this is the right attitude and maybe it isn't.  What I do know is that hacking from the rough (actually, I was so far left on this hole that I played from the 5th fairway anyway!) isn't fun and lord knows I don't try to make a living playing golf so what other reason is there to play golf other than for fun?  But I do know what Tom is talking about concerning design sometimes being about one having to hit a certain shot and if he doesn't - say good night and I agree to a certain extent depending on what the circumstances are.  I spose at the end of the day I don't like being hemmed in by roads because I don't want to see anybody get hurt with a sprayed drive.  I have seen way more of cars and people being hit than I care to.

after watching my two playing partners hit OB I too ended up way left...waaaay left in the fairway bunker on #5 :(  i can tell you the second shot from the fairway bunker over and around the trees and staring at the OB road beyond is no fun either.

i think it would play really fun if they mowed all that rough down between the forward fairway bunker on #2 all the way to the fairway bunker on #5....cool central hazard...

« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 06:37:32 PM by Chip Gaskins »

TEPaul

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 06:31:56 PM »
I take that back, on a fairly early aerial I'm not sure that the fairway over the left bunker on #2 did not extend up in there over that bunker at least for a ways and perhaps even connected to the right side of #5 fairway. However, don't forget that #2 green is not the original and the present one really does orient distinctly to the right and right at OB.

But I am sure that the fairway on #14 at one time extended right to the road. I also know that at one point Flynn recommended putting a bunker in on #14 (we have a drawing of it) that may've had fairway left of it. I would love to see that done today and fairway restored all the way to the road. That would theoretically give players a distinct option of basically going sort of straight at the hole and left of that bunker risking the road or going out to the right portion of the fairway and right of that bunker (and probably even right over it).

Having said all that I certainly am aware that the tree situation along Golf Club Road is vastly different than it was back then and that would probably make a tee shot risking the road pretty hard to do unless the player hit a pretty good draw. I believe those trees are on the other side of the road so I doubt they even belong to Merion.

But if you guys like that idea maybe we could tell the people who live on the other side of the road (who own those trees) that we have determined that the road was not actually build where Richard Francis and Horatio Gates Lloyd agreed that it should be build during that late night discussion back in 1911, so therefore Merion feels they have every good right and reason to take down some of their 95 year old trees. ;)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 06:35:12 PM by TEPaul »

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2008, 06:45:04 PM »
Chip and Sean,
Do you guys have any other pictures of Merion?  I'd love to see them posted!

Matt OBrien

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2008, 07:16:10 PM »
The new back tee on 2 is back and to the left of where that pic is taken. It adds a few yards but it also hides the street a little better. Does anybody have any pics from that new tee?

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2008, 07:48:08 PM »
Sean has posted some fantastic pictures here about 6 months ago...do a search and you will find them.

I have a few posted here: http://www.golfcourseclassics.com/2008/06/merion-2/

Here are a few of the best...








Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2008, 09:31:32 PM »
Chip and Sean,
Do you guys have any other pictures of Merion?  I'd love to see them posted!

I don't think it would be appropriate to post them all, but I have a couple of albums of many holes on the course:

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/MerionEast_11_01_08/index.html

and

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/MerionEast/index.html

and a couple of neat panoramic QuickTime movies here:

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Merion_East/No15_panorama.mov

and

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Merion_East/No16_panorama.mov
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2008, 09:40:54 PM »
An interesting study...





« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:24:24 PM by MikeCirba »

David_Elvins

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Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2008, 10:30:53 PM »
An interesting study...




A real pity it isnt maintained more like this IMO.  Merion deserves to have a great legitamately drivable par 4 rather than another drive and pitch par 4. (Sorry for threadjack)

Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2008, 10:34:41 PM »


Jim, It's difficult to tell from the other pictures posted. Is there as much green's space today, back left, as there is in the above photo?

If so, doesn't the mound still dictate the shot's shape and preferred fairway positioning? If not why not?

BTW, How often does Merion play F&F?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2008, 10:56:03 PM »
David Elvins,

You'll get no argument from me on wishing for the widening of fairways.   There are wide swaths that would be simply incredible on a wish list, such as the aforementioned 2nd & 5th fairways, and I'd also love to see the same conjoining on the 14th and 18th fairways for the width of the course out to Golf House Road.   I think it would be simply amazing.

Unfortunately, the USGA doesn't agree with us.   :-\

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2008, 11:25:20 PM »
An interesting study...








Is it my imagination, or are both of those trees still alive 96 years later?   :o :o :o


The 1916 US Amateur program refers to them as "sentinel Poplar trees".   



Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2008, 08:08:21 AM »

after watching my two playing partners hit OB I too ended up way left...waaaay left in the fairway bunker on #5 :(  i can tell you the second shot from the fairway bunker over and around the trees and staring at the OB road beyond is no fun either.


I made pars at 1, 3 and 4 during my first round at Merion (pre-new tees).  Unfortunately, on #2, trying to avoid the OB right, I hit my drive left into one of the bunkers.  I then tried to play a long iron out of the bunker (bad decision), hit it a little thin and straight into the face -- where it embedded and we were unable to find it (presumably because it went in so deep).  Needless to say, I made a BIG number there.     

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2008, 12:28:20 PM »
The mound to the left of the 14th green is part of the restoration of the East Course to its 1930 characteristics as Flynn had replaced it with a bunker post-1930.  The mound is cut to fairway height and is not a part of the green although a Texas Wedge to negotiate it is often a good play.  In the pre-1931 days before the watering system, a shot using the 1.62" ball that caught the left side of the original mound could, indeed, end up out of bounds and often did.

I would be surprised if the current mound was replaced in my lifetime with the bunker that replaced the original mound, but you never know............

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2008, 07:33:13 PM »
Chipoat, How long ago was this specific change made?

Was it part of the TF work done back approx. 6-7 years ago?



"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2008, 10:08:28 AM »
Adam:  Yes, it was.  Other historical restoration took place on #'s 4 (bunkers in), 5 (bunkers in),
7 (bunker out) and 16 (bunkers in).

Sean Arble:

Your "flashed bunker out of nowhere" is the only one on the East Courses that wasn't renovated and, thus, retains the "White Faces of Merion" look for which many on this site mourn (not including me).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 12:14:18 PM by chipoat »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2008, 10:31:25 AM »
Here's some pics from when we were all a bit younger...

(apologies to guests who can't view them)


Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2008, 10:32:37 AM »
a few more...

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo of 14th green at Merion
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2008, 12:23:19 PM »


Jim, It's difficult to tell from the other pictures posted. Is there as much green's space today, back left, as there is in the above photo?

If so, doesn't the mound still dictate the shot's shape and preferred fairway positioning? If not why not?

BTW, How often does Merion play F&F?

I think the green space is very similar to what was there before the bunker was removed.

The mound is much less intimidating, both visually, and actually. Half of the mound brings the ball down onto the green whereas that same shot would have been in a pretty nasty bunker before.

Is intimidation the most important thing in golf course architecture? No. But it is the key to suggestive architecture, isn't it? After all, even with that bunker in there you were not forced to use the right third of the fairway to get to the back left corner...it just suggests it.


I don't know how often Merion plays firm and fast but I think they are trying to prepare that way as much as possible.

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