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Tom Naccarato

Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« on: November 23, 2008, 06:04:22 AM »
Quite possibly. Certainly a pretty golf course and the clubhouse is pretty cool too. (as far as CCFAD's go)

Casey O'Callaghan has taken a lot of gruff from some people because of a certain horribly placed golf course (The Ranch on the outskirts of San Jose) and I sort of hate to see that because Casey is a great guy who works hard at his profession and is willing to learn along classic lines. But this course he did with Lehman Design's Josh Taylor is pretty good and has some really interesting holes. They certainly got it right when it came to certain plateau greens like the 9th which is guarded by a plateau making the shot from the right side of the fairway, a very testing proposition.

If a resident of the O.C. would freely admit it, they should know that there isn't much to chose from behind the Orange Curtin, but they did a really good job here.

Some pics:
The 17th from just in front of the fairway bunker.


Mr. & Mrs. Redanman, posing in front of the hole that is their nick-namesake.


The Bottle Hole 15th.


Our 4 Ball was rounded out by none other then Mr. Orange County himself, (at least he thought he was that) Mr. Dave Smith of LAguna Niguel, California. Dave feels that Fast & Firm conditions is Old-style Golf and even though he was playing Arroyo Trabuco on this day, he avoids the course regularly because of these conditions. He says he can't stick the ball and that the greens and their surrounds allow a player to get-lucky and bounce the ball in. This was a BIG No-No in his book, despite our rhetoric, telling him that he should get used to this style of play. He also told me that if he had to play F& conditions everyday, he would quite the "Game."


Looking down from the 7th tee, 6th green


The Redan 4th sans Mr. & Mrs, V.


Looking down on the 3rd.


Yancey_Beamer

Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 06:15:06 AM »
Yes,Tommy it is the best in Cougar County.

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 06:57:32 AM »
Quite possibly. Certainly a pretty golf course and the clubhouse is pretty cool too. (as far as CCFAD's go)

If a resident of the O.C. would freely admit it, they should know that there isn't much to chose from behind the Orange Curtin

I can't speak to the quality of the private clubs in the OC. While  I am only  an infrequent visitor to OC,  I have played a dozen or so courses there. Compared to any County in the NYC metro area, the OC has plenty of quality public acces courses. This is the current list of favorites from Greenskeeper.org Arroyo Trabuco is #8.   My friends in OC are not unhappy with their public options. I like Arroyo Trabuco a lot, but I've enjoyed most of the other courses I've played in OC.  My last trip included Strawberry Farms, Oak Creek and Coyote Hills. Certainly OC New York has nothing to compare to those. ;)

1.    Pelican Hill - South
2.   Pelican Hill  - North
3.   Oak Creek
4.   Monarch Beach
5.   Coyote Hills
6.   Mile Square  - Classic
7.   Mile Square  -Players
8.   Arroyo Trabuco
9.   Talega
10.   David Baker
11.   Strawberry Farms
12.   San Clemente
13.   Black Gold
14.   Westridge
15.    Aliso Creek
16.    San Juan Hills
17.    Costa Mesa - Los Lagos
18.   Navy GC - Destroyer
19.   Tustin Ranch
20.   Aliso Viejo
21.   Costa Mesa - Mesa Linda
22.   Tijeras Creek
23.   Meadowlark
24.   Willowick
25.   Anaheim Hills
26.   River View
27.   Birch Hills




rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2008, 08:01:25 AM »
Stewart-

Greenskeeper's "Rankings" are based on conditioning alone, not course quailty.  The first clue to that should be the course ranked #4 ;)

(and maybe the one ranked 14th too)

Tommy...I never made it out to Arroyo Trabuco except for the time I test drove a G35 coupe from Mission Viejo Infiniti to the clubhouse and back, but while I heard many good things about the course, I also heard a ton of people say that the ground was still very immature/too firm and young.  Has it softened at all? 

Tom Naccarato

Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 11:10:46 AM »
That's quite a list there Stewart, especially for someone from New York where the quality of golf on Long Island, well just sucks. Especially on the private end of things! ;)

If I maybe so bold, could I ask if on your visits here, you have happened to be accompanied on your rounds by a "local" older woman looking for companionship? If so, then you should really think about moving to Cougar County. You will fit right in!

As far as ranking your list, here is how I would do it, but I have to tell you being loyal to my Golfweek roots, I'm going to break it up in two categories, Classic and Modern.

Classic
1.   San Clemente
2.   Meadowlark
3.   Willowick
(Unfortunately, I can't post Aliso Creek in this. I haven't played it and I consider that a HUGE hole in my SoCal repertoire of courses experienced. I don't have a list, nor will never have a list but if I did, since I have been there a couple of times to look around. William Park Bell/creek/golf....You do the math.)

All three of those are close to being a tie-- but if I had the gumption to post what they were once really like there would be no need to post a modern list. Those three would blow the others away. (in their original form)

Now on to....

Modern
1.   Arroyo Trabuco
2.   Pelican Hill  - North
3.   Strawberry Farms
4....Forget it, I can't do this. Its all just sucks...... In fact, I would be better to post a worst then a best list. I would start with the course that sits a little more then 500 yards away from me as I type this: La Horrible-Westridge:Golf in the real Coyote Hills (ruthlessly stolen from Sandpines: Golf on the Oregon Dunes, Where Coyote Hills GC is at, isn't really Coyote Hills) followed by Tustin Raunch, Mundane Beach, Black Golf, Aliso NotVeryGood-o, Bitch Hills, etc. etc. etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. Please spare me the horror of having to explain more about these courses, why Golf in Ora...I mean Cougar County might be some of the worst in the land, if not for the saving grace of those top three courses, as well as the one I haven't played which seems to be a little charmer.

Doctor Beamer, I'm ready for my lobotomy......

TX Golf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2008, 11:16:22 AM »
Have played Westridge twice... should have found something better to do with my time.

The back nine at Strawberry Farms is pretty cool... interesting concept to design it around the lake.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 11:47:36 AM »
Where is Spaulds and Baller when we need their sarcasm.... ;)


The public side of OC is slim pickings indeed. San Clemente and Williowick has some neat stuff, but are by no means worth a special trip onto themselves (although SC is a personal fav of mine). I agree w/ Pelican Hill North being the better of the two there. And Simps is right, number 4 on that list says it all. And I like Arroyo as well, Tom. It nots great, but it ain't bad either and considering the options in OC, it's one of the best the area has to offer. It's also a very tranquil setting within the bussle of the area. Unfortunately, it's gotten more expensive since it's opening.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2008, 01:46:27 PM »
Arroyo is probably the best public course in south oc, especially in bang for the buck in an overpriced world.
Of being the best in "Cougar County" is about the same as being the best speed skater in Bermuda.


Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2008, 02:07:34 PM »
I've traded in Cougars for Bears, Trees, inmates, silver people, tense negotiations with street people, and shopping the last few days. Think I that saw a cell with etchings of a par 3 which featured a waterfall, fountain, triple tiered green, and a bunker between the hazard and the green. Perhaps Frank Morris changed his identity to CalFredo after escaping.

San Clemente is my personal favorite.

Arroyo is the modern public which I'd most enjoy regularly.....probably ahead of Meadowlark in the big picture. It can be walked without great diress and the fee is reasonable. Pelican North has less bad holes...but I can't force myself to go back there very often (a very lame valet/cartball/green fee setup).

The greenskeeper list just made breakfast come up and out the window of our hotel on Nob Hill.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Tom Naccarato

Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2008, 06:00:40 PM »
The funny thing is that they put Pelican Hill-South ahead of Pelican Hill-North, which of course we all know that there is two, maybe three good holes on the South. (I'm stretching the word "good" here)

O.K., so now that we've probably driven away any good conversation on this thread, lets talk about my new "friend" Dave Smith.

(the gentleman in the picture)

Pat, why do I just know your going to tell me that you gave him a lesson once and then fired yourself half-way through it?

While talking to Dave, I made it a point to just let him do the talking. I know that sounds like almost an impossible feat for me, but honestly, I did exactly that. I did however insert a pro to his con or a con to his pro when it was appropriate; he told me of the grand stories of knowing General Lyons and Broadcom co-founder and CEO, Henry Nicholas. He actually told me he knew two of the five Orange County Housewive's and told me how out of touch with reality they really were.

Before he realized what he had been dealing with, we we're explained terms like shot value and risk/reward; He told me that the only good greens were greens that you could take no more then a two-putt on. (I've heard this same thing before) He also explained to me that unless a green can hold a shot its not a putting green and that any hole that allowed you to bounce and run it in was not a golf hole. He described of shotting rounds in the low 70's on several occasions, yet, it wasn't until the 18th hole that he actually out-drove me, and I'm not that long of a hitter. It went on and on and on and on.

At the 14th hole, he had a great little bump  & run shot into the green being presented to him on a silver platter. He was indecisive on what to hit, because after all club selection is most vitally important for a solid 18 handicapper--he took me up on the challenge I presented him and he did in fact hit it to the pin and got it to stop about a 2-1/2' away. The look on his face immediately afterwards was sheer delight, and then I said to him as I hit my ball from the bunker, nearly holing it out: Dave, You will be my greatest student. Maybe my very last one..... Dave went into the tank after that--it was just all too-much for him to handle--this success on the links.

And then the subject turned back to golf and it was interesting. Never once did I divulge any knowledge of the study of Golf Architecture; at least not until he finally asked after hearing The Redanman's and I go back and forth dissecting the Arroyo Trabuco-layout. He finally asked, "Do you guys always do this when you play?" and I answered the question with a question, "What? Do you mean the we take apart the course and put it back together again the way we found it? and then, only then did I divulge that we got into this stuff quite more then the Average Joe.

You see, Dave Smith was the prototypical Cougar County golfer. I've learned to both loath and not respect them--all of them. They are the typical lot that have the membership at Mission Impossible, or worse, El Niguel.  (Opps, sorry! :D) Some of them are stupid enough to subscribe to Southland Golfer, even though its a free magazine available at Cougar County-based Roger Dunn Inc. (and of course they don't read it, only look at the pictures)

Anyway, God must love Cougar County because he still allows it to exist. Certainly this Godforsaken place is no different then a modern day Sodom & Gomorrah, only it has its own sinister character, and instead of everybody having orgies or buggering one another, in Cougar County they spend endless gobs of money on stuff they don't need like the new BMW, or Range Rover, and /or this past months purchases at Nordstroms; They make twice yearly visits to the cosmetic surgeon for a touch-up and can get there as soon as they find a quicker diversion past Fashion Island. (Just say no)

Go Trabuco.


David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2008, 09:00:12 PM »


 , and instead of everybody having orgies or buggering one another, in


This should read "in addtion to"...... ;) ;D
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Naccarato

Re: Is Arroyo Trabuco the Best In Cougar County?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2008, 09:25:10 PM »
Yes, my mistake. One of my biggest... Hopefully I learn next time, but until then, I'll force feed me on some Walk In The Park blog and realize that its all just a sport. (and not a game)

It's all about the Line of Charm....

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