Topo Maps?

[Ian_L]

Does anybody have a topo map(s) they would be willing to share of a property that could be made into a golf course (topo maps for existing courses would work just fine as well)?  Is there any online resource where I could find topo maps this detailed? 

Thanks in advance,

Ian

[Dan Herrmann]

Try http://terraserver-usa.com/default.aspx as a start.  You can see the USGS topo maps here.

[Charlie Goerges]

Ian, I used the USGS DEM and other information along with the free USGS Global Mapper software to generate 1-foot intervals for my family's land. Unfortunately, they can't be exported, so I took screengrabs when zoomed in and tiled them together in photoshop. It's a fair bit of work, but it's the only way I have found to get that level of detail without shelling out some serious cash. I don't know how familiar you are with the USGS sites or their data, but if you want more detail, let me know, I can post a tutorial of sorts if it makes sense.

Edit: By the way, I wouldn't recomment 1-foot intervals if you are interested in converting to 3d, just too much information when dealing with an area the size of a golf course, unless you have some serious hardware. I think a jump to 2-foot intervals would probably be fine.

[John Foley]

Charlie,

How accurate is that 1M data? Everything I have seen said the free USGS info was 10 M data and as Ian said generating true 1M data gets very expensive.

I hope Mike Nuzzo chime's in as he an expert in this.

Would love to see a tutorial on how to generate them.

[Charlie Goerges]

Hi John, Just a correction, I mentioned a 1-foot interval, not a 1 meter interval. The 1-foot interval was based on DEM data IIRC. I opened the file with the Global Mapper and then told it to display 1-foot intervals, which it did. I know that real 1' intervals have not been done in the area in question, but the DEM data may be more accurate than the old 10 foot interval data. In any event, some mathematical extrapolation would have had to be done, but just how much I am not sure. As to accuracy, the lines look about right, but there doesn't seem to be enough variation (i.e. smaller features that don't closely follow the larger interval lines) to reflect the real variation on the ground. I have not been out on the property yet with this map (I haven't printed it yet) to verify how accurate it is, but it is "close enough" I suspect for initial planning purposes.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ian,
What are you working on?
Are you an associate?
(I do miss the "read past posts" feature here - i don't know who I'm talking to anymore)
I often use the http://terraserver-usa.com/ site as well.
At the bottom I'll show an example using 10 foot contours - but I also spent 3 days walking the site too.
I take the image with an aerial from MSN or Google (they have different data) overlay them in Illustrator and trace the contour lines manually.

Thank you John.
Yes the title of this thread will draw me in every time...

Charlie is quite impressive - I'd love to see your tutorial - I have to respond to your last one still - it came pre-hurricane and I'm still working on those e-mails.  Thank you.

To do any real drainage or earthwork a current aerial is best - or so it has been so far.
It is an expensive investment - but not relative to the cost of a project.

[Ian_L]

Mike, I'm not in the business, just looking for some maps to try (and fail) to put an 18-hole routing together with Charlie's software (see Armchair Architecture).  Thanks for all the help so far.  Charlie, I don't have photoshop, is there a freeware program that could work?

[Bill_McBride]

Mike Nuzzo - WOW!  I hope the Aztec Club is built, it looks like a lot of fun.  I love the washes running across so many fairways.  And a few of those centerline bunkers everybody's talking about. 

Hope all's well in Houston.  Son David's baby is due first part of November  so I will be headed your way.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ian,

Ian,
Thank you.
I'd suggest Illustrator over Photoshop.
But yes it is pricey for an off the shelf product.

There are several lower priced competitors:
Look for anything that uses vectors.
Google:  vector drawing program - a lot comes up - the first one is free... vector graphic software too....
I just did a search and found this list....
http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_08_01_05.html scroll to the bottom to see the list of free ones.

Cheers

Thank you Bill.
Me too.

[Ronald Montesano]

Aren't most of those terraserver images hopelessly out of date?  For practice purposes it doesn't matter, but for real-life access, they're easily 15 years old.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ronald,
The topo is only out of date after it gets disturbed - and in my example above - there have been no changes in dozens of years....

And you are right - for real life it isn't accurate enough for my tastes.

[Charlie Goerges]

Hi all,

Ian, there are free programs available. The best free analog to photoshop is the GIMP (Gnu Image Manipulation Program) and the best free analog to Illustrator AFAIK is Inkscape. And Mike is right, Illustrator is the more versatile software, even if it is not as intuitive for folks reared on photoshop.

The first two links below are sources for GIS and geologic survey information, the third link is for the program that can read and display the files. All this stuff is much newer (generally) than the stuff on terraserver.

http://seamless.usgs.gov/
http://data.geocomm.com/dem/demdownload.html
http://mcmcweb.er.usgs.gov/drc/dlgv32pro/

My process would be to get a raster image of some sort by downloading data from the first two links above and then opening it in the program from the third link. Then I would clean up the image in photoshop then bring it into illustrator for an autotrace. I'd clean that up, export a dwg or dxf file and import it into sketchup for 3d stuff. Personally I'd work on the hole designs in illustrator then export them as well for use in sketchup. It's much more complicated going from the above websites to a usable image than I made it sound, though it would be possible to skip the entire photoshop step (which is by far the most work) by buying the license for the software, but at $300 I figured I'd skip it for now. If multiple folks are interested in a bigger project, we should plan it out a bit in advance, and perhaps avoid duplication of efforts as well as find a neat piece of land to use. Any and all golf courses you can think of can be found for design purposes, but if there are lots of restrictions, it might reduce the freedom and creativity as well as lead people to create the same thing that is already there.

BTW Mike,

I've been called a lot of things, but impressive surely hasn't been one of them ...thanks. I was going to email you to see how things were going, but I figured you had a mass of emails to wade through already and decided not to add to the task.

[Ian_L]

Wow, sounds involved.    With my lack of computer skills, I think I'll hold off on trying this out until I have LOTS of time.  But if I can help anyone else out on this, please let me know.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ian,
I don't know where you're located, but LLBean retail stores can print out a nice USGS topo map for you for a few bucks.

[Ian_L]

Cool, I'll look into that.

[RJ_Daley]

In my State, depending on if the land track you are interested in is near a State or US highway, you can often find topos and aerials on 2ft ele at 1"-200' scales.  Also, go to county land planning offices.  I forget the name of the aerials that are stored on heavy negatives of 2'X3' size that you then make blueprints out of. 

[Tim Bert]

Mike Nuzzo -

I just ended up on your web site after seeing the link on amazon.com.  I hadn't been for a while, so I was browsing around.  Actually saw the reference to Aztec and started looking at the fantastic pictures of the site.  I hadn't heard it discussed on here before, so I did a search and what do you know... here I am.

Can you please let us know the status of the course?  Is it actually being built or is it on hold?