[Bill Satterfield]

As I've read through some of the threads regarding difficult stretches of holes, it made me wonder what the most difficult finishing hole in my state was.  I'm sure topics similar to that have been visited before, but let's keep it to Public courses only.  For Idaho, my vote would be Falcon Crest's finishing hole (located near Boise).  It is a 479 yard par 4 dogleg left where the approach shot plays over a very large lake and very little room is offered to layup down the left side if you so choose.  You can't get much closer than about 170 yards before you run into the water and most players will be faced with 200 - 220 yards for their approach.  Like it or hate it, it is definitly tough.  Here is a link to show an aerial view of the hole:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Falcon+Crest,+Kuna,+ID&sll=42.894894,-112.438321&sspn=0.007734,0.013733&g=1133+Call+Creek+Dr,+Pocatello,+ID+83201&ie=UTF8&ll=43.503072,-116.321611&spn=0.003829,0.006866&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.503048,-116.321847

[Scott_Burroughs]

Bill,

That's a good choice, thinking of the 12 courses in Idaho I've played that are open to the public is some way.

The only other choices I could think of would be Osprey Meadows' finisher (prior to re-work they may have done to fix it - as they indicated they were) and perhaps Quail Hollow's, if it's a par 4 (I can't remember if it's a 4 or a 5).  That drive from 100 feet above the fairway to a fairway w/pond tight on the right was dicey.  At the original OM #18, if you don't have a good (big) drive, you must lay-up to the island fairway, and it was maybe 200 in, uphill from there to a well-bunkered, 3-tiered, nasty green.

[Deucie Bies]

In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?

[Jim_Kennedy]

In Ct., probably Gillete Ridge.
It's 480 yds., par 4, dogleg right, to a narrow green that juts out into a pond, somewhat like a 'Cape'. A real bear of a hole.

[Anthony Gray]

  In Tennesse there are some fishing holes guarded by guys with shot guns and banjos. Pretty tough.

[Peter Pratt]

In Michigan, no question about it: 465-yard 18th at Timber Ridge, in East Lansing. Tight drive between two stands of trees, then a long, semiblind second over a pond to a two-tiered green. A silly hole.

[CJ Carder]

Wow, that's a tough question considering the volume of courses to debate per state.  I'm not sure I can narrow it down in Virginia to just one, though I can certainly toss out some ideas:

- Virginia Beach National - 498 / 469 / 458 / 431 / 394 par 4.  This hole is vey much in the theme of 18 at Sawgrass, but Pete Dye was "kind" enough to place a bunker / waste area to the left side of the green bordering the water.  Still, it's long.

- Golden Horseshoe Gold - 444 / 431 / 421 par 4.  Difficult driving hole as a drive missing the fairway on the right will find the woods and a drive either missing the fairway on the left or too close to the edge of the fairway on the left may be blocked out from the green.  The hole doglegs left to a small, wel-bunkered green with water behind it.
http://www.colonialwilliamsburgresort.com/golf/tours/gold?hole=18

- Royal New Kent - 463 / 403 / 386 / 351 par 4.  Wide open fairway that plays a bit uphill is not so much of a challenge.  However, a longish approach into a fairly shallow peninsula green puts a premium on distance control.  Short is wet, long is wet.
http://traditionalclubs.com/sites/images/356/holes/hole18.jpg

- Sleepy Hole - 470 / 445 / 380 / 300 par 4.  Former host of the LPGA Crestar Classic, this is a little bit of an awkward driving hole, but again, the player is left with a long approach shot to a narrow green that is built right on the water, this time with no real buffer area.  Long is wet, left is wet, right is dry, but covered in sand.
http://www.sleepyholegolfcourse.com/images/scorecard/back9.jpg

[Phil McDade]

In Wisconsin, probably Blackwolf Run's 18th at the River Course.

I hesitate to bring up the 18th at Whistling Straits -- it's a hard hole, but several posters have described it as silly, unfair, and not very well designed, among other attributes.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

I haven't seen the hole at Timber Ridge, but how long is the final water carry?

Reminds me of another Matthews course I once played, Elk Ridge.  The last hole was a par-5 with a 130-yard carry over water / wetlands in front of the green.  For women, it seemed to be a hole where few finished.

[Matt_Cohn]

California...umm...

Wente Vineyards?

[Philippe Binette]

Toughest public finishing hole in Québec:

I don't know if it's the toughest but the last hole on the Faon course at Parcours du Cerf... 590 yards into the wind uphill a bit as seen a lot of bogeys and worse. (graham cooke design)

For most players it looks like and endless streak of 3-wood shots

[Doug Wright]

In Colorado, the finisher at Green Valley Ranch (639 yards par 5) is strong, with a carry over wetlands required.  Murphy Creek's 18th (468 yards par 4) also is pretty tough especially into any wind.

[Dan Kelly]

In Minnesota, 18 at Chaska Town Course -- par-5; sweeping right to left around a
wetland hazard from tee to green, pinched in by bunkers along the right side -- has to
be among the contenders.

It's a pretty hole, but no damned fun.

[Scott_Burroughs]

In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?

An argument could be made for TPC Sawgrass, the 4th toughest hole on the PGA Tour this year, and 2nd toughest finishing hole (Oakland Hills was 1st).  Blue Montster's closer was #6 toughest finisher for the year.   All '08 data only.


Stats here and here

[Bill_McBride]

In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?

For sure.  That was the easiest bailout to make in 50 years of golf!

[Tim Leahy]

California...umm...

Wente Vineyards?

With the wind up, that one is tough.
But how about in SoCal, Industry Hills Ike course-652 yds, water, trees, sand and an elevated multi tier green.
There is a plaque on 18 at Rancho Park in LA that has Arnold Palmer making a 13 in the LA Open, so that one might qualify.

[Deucie Bies]

In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?

An argument could be made for TPC Sawgrass, the 4th toughest hole on the PGA Tour this year, and 2nd toughest finishing hole (Oakland Hills was 1st).  Blue Montster's closer was #6 toughest finisher for the year.   All '08 data only.


Stats here and here

Good point Scott.  I may have to revise my choice.  I threw out Doral very quickly, but there is no doubt that 18 at TPC Sawgrass is also very difficult.

As for Michigan, Oakland Hills #18 would have to rank up there as a par 4, but luckily for the average golfer it is a par 5.

In Illinois, I don't remember #18 at Olmpia Fields being particularly easy.

[Tim Gavrich]

I agree with Gillette Ridge as having the toughest public 18th in CT.

As for South Carolina, would #18 at the Ocean Course take the title?

[Reef Wilson]

California...umm...

Wente Vineyards?

I haven't played Wente, but Harding immediately came to mind. Enough of the pro's whined about it, that's for sure. I think I've only parred it once from the blues.

[Scott_Burroughs]

In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?

An argument could be made for TPC Sawgrass, the 4th toughest hole on the PGA Tour this year, and 2nd toughest finishing hole (Oakland Hills was 1st).  Blue Montster's closer was #6 toughest finisher for the year.   All '08 data only.


Stats here and here

Good point Scott.  I may have to revise my choice.  I threw out Doral very quickly, but there is no doubt that 18 at TPC Sawgrass is also very difficult.

As for Michigan, Oakland Hills #18 would have to rank up there as a par 4, but luckily for the average golfer it is a par 5.

In Illinois, I don't remember #18 at Olmpia Fields being particularly easy.

Tough finishers, but OH and OF are both private.

[Matt_Cohn]

California...umm...

Wente Vineyards?

I haven't played Wente, but Harding immediately came to mind. Enough of the pro's whined about it, that's for sure. I think I've only parred it once from the blues.

I thought about Harding, but you can make a pretty straightforward 5 there most of the time - drive right, lay up right, wedge on. At Wente there's no safe way to play the hole. You have trouble on both sides, a creek in the middle, and water in front of the green, not just next to it.

This view does not show the two back tees out of frame on the left. I think it's 469 yards. The left and right boundaries are both OB I believe.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gotta agree with Matt - I'll take Wente over Harding also.

But methinks we must think more creatively.... think BAD courses..... there have to be some other more stupidly hard finishing holes in our state.

I just can't think of any good ones right now!

[Jason Topp]

In Minnesota, 18 at Chaska Town Course -- par-5; sweeping right to left around a
wetland hazard from tee to green, pinched in by bunkers along the right side -- has to
be among the contenders.

It's a pretty hole, but no damned fun.

Dan - you need to play that hole more.  

It is not that difficult.  Played conservatively it is a drive to a 75 yard wide fairway, a short iron to the 150 marker and a 150 yard approach to a green with plenty of bail out room right.    

The hole also is very fun.  I've won it by making birdie after reaching the fringe in two and have won it with a triple bogey.

I think the Classic, Stoneridge and the Wilds all have much more difficult finishing holes.

[Greg Clark]

I sure do feel that the Straits course finale is indeed a tougher hole than the River's.  However, The Bull at Pinehurst Farms closer is tougher than the River's and at least as hard as the Straits. 

[Dan Kelly]

In Minnesota, 18 at Chaska Town Course -- par-5; sweeping right to left around a
wetland hazard from tee to green, pinched in by bunkers along the right side -- has to
be among the contenders.

It's a pretty hole, but no damned fun.

Dan - you need to play that hole more. 

It is not that difficult.  Played conservatively it is a drive to a 75 yard wide fairway, a short iron to the 150 marker and a 150 yard approach to a green with plenty of bail out room right.   

The hole also is very fun.  I've won it by making birdie after reaching the fringe in two and have won it with a triple bogey.

I think the Classic, Stoneridge and the Wilds all have much more difficult finishing holes.

Jason --

I'll agree with you. If you play Chaska 18 the no-fun way, it's not that hard. (Definition of no fun: a par-5 hole that includes "a short iron to the 150 marker.")

I don't need to play it more, actually. I've played it a bunch -- the smart, no-fun way.

I forgot about Stoneridge. Agree completely that it's much more difficult. I don't even remember 18 at the Classic (have played it only once).

And yes, the Wilds is a tough 18 -- but not so tough as Stoneridge.

P.S. You should have seen how tough Oak Glen 18 was yesterday, at 35 degrees, with a northwesterly wind howling!

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