Courses that grow on you

[Will E]

I was blown away as to how good Lawsonia was on my first trip around the "links" on Sunday. The last couple of days it's been hard for me to think of anything other than the amazing detail that Langford put into this design. I hope my brain doesn't explode. (Dr. Katz send more medication) NGLA had the same type of effect on me, after my "first experience" there I had a dopey looking smile on face that I couldn't erase for about a week.
Yesterday I overdosed by playing the Dunes club. I'm suffering (buzzing) from overload.

Have you ever had a course that you've played, and then thought more of it, the more you thought of it? I'm not sure the medication is working, shows what a day with the kid will do to you.

[A_Clay_Man]

Ahh Lawsonia. Did you only play one round? Was Norton's on the menu?
What did you think of the Lee nines?

[TEPaul]

Misquamicut really grew on me--and very quickly! I could play that course almost everyday but apparently they won't let me!

Maidstone grew on me too--for some reason it took a while to though. NGLA didn't exactly grow on me--it was more like a massive intravenous injection!

[Ed_Baker]

Everything about NGLA is instantaneous!! It starts at the entrance with the sign instructing vehicles to stop if there are golfers on the 17th or 18th greens! Cool. Up here the signs instuct golfers to watch for cars!! Golf is FIRST at the National.

I like to take Tuckahoe Rd. right through the middle of Shinnecock and then take the little jog left on to Sabonic Inlet rd. driving through Shinnecock first gets you to squirmin' around in the seat like a freshman sitting in the back of the hockey bus with the senior cheerleaders.

[old tom]

TOC will grow on you, and if it doesn't then you just don't get it.

[Jeff_Stettner]

Shooter:
Thought I'd lost you there for a second ... I was shocked that you weren't as ga-ga over The dunes as I was.
The Dunes really is just that good. Add in the atmosphere, tee system  and conditioning, and I can think of few places I'd rather play again.
Just send me a cut shot, will ya?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shooter,

NGLA continues to grow on me.

[Paul Richards]

A few courses I didn't really like the first time, that I really
did like on a second trip around:

1. Annandale, in Los Angeles
2. Muirfield in Scotland (respected it, but didn't like it one bit!)
3. Royal Birkdale (similar feeling - it was just OK, but on a
second trip back, I came to understand why it's so universally liked!)

[Will E]

Kid,
I think I could be suffering from the dreaded "huck cherry" virus, touting how great Lawsonia was and then playing Dunes club and thinking that this is exactly what I had in my mind for my "perfect" course. As you know it goes against my nature to actually like anything. Well damnit, Lawsonia and Dunes just made my short list. I am ga-ga over both courses. Thank goodness I'm playing a place I don't care for in the morning.

[Andy Hodson]

The first time I played the Ocean course at Kiawah, I thought it was a most beautiful piece of land they should let the golf course go back to. By the fourth time I had the pleasure of playing it, I realized it was a damn good golf course that just demanded better shots than I was consistently able to pull off. A hundred and eighty degree shift in opinion.

[Will E]

I keep playing Banff over and over again in my head and it keeps getting better (I'm making more putts too).
Jasper was good but hasn't grown on me like Banff.

[THuckaby2]

shooter:  I'm just glad my effect is so powerful it reaches even great players and astute judges of courses like you.  Now if you start chunking wedges, I'll really claim omnipotence.

 

[Doug Wright]

Riverdale Dunes (Brighton, Colo). I thought this Pete Dye public course (where young Tom Doak spent some time on a bulldozer) was "just OK" for years; the last couple of times I played it I've found the holes I always liked I liked even more, the holes I thought were OK were better than I first thought, and the bad holes are fewer (though there's no salvaging 18).

I also have a greater appreciation for Cherry Hills.

I think this website has something to do with it. It's a whole lot easier to find the good (and bad) in a course if you know what to look for.

Best,

[RJ_Daley]

Shooter, you are a beauty for posting about every 2 years!

The courses I have been going over and over in my head and that I only played once to 3-4 times each are the California courses I've been lucky enough to play in the last few years; Rustic Canyon, Valley Club, and Barona Creek.  Yes, there are some week holes on each, but only about 1 or two per course.  The courses as a whole really keep returning in my memory bank.   Since I know how you played Lawsonia having had the pleasure of playing there with you, I must say that you would also go wild for Blue Mound CC in Milwaukee, I think.  But, the last time I played there, it rained hard for a while, and was soft before the rain, which caused the greens and fairways to play like pudding.  As a firm course, I think you'd think of it above Lawsonia, yet in the same style and mind set of why you seem to like Lawsonia.

So, get back to WISC. soon and maybe we can have another go at it.

[THuckaby2]

See, this is the downside - and the only downside mind you - of having the attitude I do, that is, loving damn near every course I play and extolling its greatness (the hucky's cherries virus, coined by JakaB and referenced by shooter here).  I have a hard time having courses "grow on me"... because there's no growth to be had!

So I have puzzled over this for quite awhile now, as every course that anyone's heard of I liked immediately.  Some I did come to like MORE as time goes on, but hell what's the difference between great and really great?  It's not worth mentioning.

But I did think of one, a course that I started out hating, came to grudgingly accept, then started seeing good things on, now really do love:  my home course, Santa Teresa Muni.  Oh, I will admit it takes a real love of the game to see the good in this course, but I swear there is good to be seen.  Damn I wish some of you could see it... You'd likely think it very blah, but I'd love to be able to discuss some of the cooler subtleties.

BTW, all kudos and honor to Gib Papazian for my education about this course.  Several years ago when I bitched about it, he pointed out a lot of good to which my eyes were previously closed.  Since then, I have looked for more good and found it.  Damn Armenian (I say with all love and respect).

TH

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Harbour Town is starting to grow on me.

At first, too tight/bowling alley fairways with Shaq and Yao Ming Trees encroaching mightily into the fairways, greens the size of card tables, a tale of two golf courses (Condo Alley 1-16.5) and Low Country Boil (16.5-18).

Starting to like it more now that they have cleared some limbs and reconditioned the place.

JWK

[Mike Nuzzo]

Wait a second...
Was Shooter at Banff and Jasper?
So who was shooter??

 

If only the greens were they way they must have been....
Banff would reign supreme.
and yes Banff has grown on me since.

I can't even muster the strength to play here in flatsville, it can't compare.

[Bill_McBride]

Dick, just curious about what holes you felt were weak at the Valley Club!  Really!

[Pete Lavallee]

Yeah, and when you're done explain to me where the weak holes are at Rustic and Barona!

[Bill_McBride]

Yeah, Dick!  Let's hear it!

[ed_getka]

I can't speak to Valley Club, but I have an opinion about Rustic & Barona. Rustic #9 is a straightaway par 5 with tons of room to hit the fairway and nothing to get in the way going up to the green. But what a green it is, and it saves the hole from being completely monotonous. #12 is a short par 4 that gives you little to think about off the tee, again being redeemed by an incredibly cool green. It is one of my favorite courses and I always go there to tune up my game before going on a F&F golf trip.
  Barona #12 is a clinker. Off the tee there is bunkering right, so you would think by challenging it you would be rewarded with a better angle into the green, but you are not. The green is very difficult to hold. #16 par 3 is a virtually unholdable green that plays downhill & downwind, and there is no run up option except on the left side, but that leaves 2/3 of the green that is fairly inaccessible. Again, the positive attributes of this course make it one of my favorites. The greens and surrounds of Barona are exceptional and I look forward to seeing Todd's next effort.
    As for courses growing on me, Kingsley Club has become an annual trip for me and I so look forward to it. Royal Dornoch is the course that I think about more than any other since making my first trip to Scotland in May. North Berwick is not far behind.
   I keep wanting to get to Lawsonia, but I can't seem to travel to the midwest without going to Crystal Downs and Kingsley Club.

[RJ_Daley]

Yikes, inquiring minds want to know...

Well Valley Club, despite how I played them (mostly bogey/ double golf, but a couple pars and one birdie) had a few holes that were a bit under stated from some of the best holes there.  1 and 2 as opening par 5s in a row were pretty straight forward (as an after thought having only played the course once) where the strategy after one plays them seems to me to be 3W or less off tee, iron to lay-up and flip to green.  The business was better on the green on 1 than 2, in my recollection.  I can't actually remember what the short par 4, 6th presented as the striking feature that most short 4s have.  I just wasn't wild about the dogleg 9th, or mudslide affected 10th.  16 is rated #2 handicap, but it is just long, not too interesting in LZ or approach.  17 was a bit of a breather before turning home to one of the most wonderful views and inviting fairways up to the club house I have seen (as is 15 similarly situated and challenging) and both are excellent holes IMO.  I loved all of the par 3s there.  The bunker work and placement in relation to greens contours was great.  But, one play isn't enough to pick up nuances and consistent feature challenges that thwart routine pars and confound the player.  So, I don't call this criticism as much as looking back on one play and trying to think of what specific hole design didn't WOW me over.

As for Rustic, a much tougher one to find a weak hole, but there must be one.  I'll pick #2, 4, 11 and 12 as the candidates for weakest on that course.  

But, I had to go shoot my mouth off in my reply to Will and say each course lingers in my memory because they are so great, yet I tried to mitigate adding "yes there are some week holes on the courses, but only about 1 or 2 per course".  I am not going to stand on any soap box and claim these holes are weak by anything other than comparison to the other great holes on these courses.

Finally, Barona 2, 10, 12 and 15 are ~weaker of those on that course.

So now I'll be moseying on over to the woodshed for a good thrashing by Pete and Bill

[ed_getka]

Not so fast Mr. Daley. What is is weak about #2 and #11 Rustic? I really like those holes, and am curious to know why you consider them weak links? THEN you can go get your thrashing.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Dick,
I find it ironic that the four holes yo pick as the weakest happen to be the best, if not more interesting greens on the course! (2,4 11, & 12)

My take on #2 the strongest hole for me on the front nine is that many just don't understand that postioning yourself off of the tee is everything. Just recently while playing with David Moriarty and Slag, David said, "Well Tommy likes to take it to the right side on this hole" and that's when I yelped, "Its only because I'm trying to play the left side everytime and I fail! (to get it over there for the better angle into the green) I have learned how to play it from the right though, even if I end up in the bunkers and usually it results in me having a shot at par. It's not by choice, and it makes it a much harder way to play the hole--a par 4 1/2 if there ever was one. At least for me.  

And it doesn't matter which tee I'm playing from either Blue or Black!

#4, well I have tired of telling people that a low running hook is the way to play the hole, and after proving it everytime, I'll keep on letting everyone try to fly it to the pin....especially if its back center or left!

#11--Whether the wind is at my back or in my face this hole gives me fits. Now if memory serves me right, weren't you in the bunker left on your approach at KPIII? This was after a pretty decent drive? (For a always sneekingly long Dick Daley!) For me the hole is a par 6 everytime! Even if I get a good drive off of the tee. Its just a tough but beautiful hole--at least for me.

#12--After recently expereincing some driving success off of the tee, I have found the 12th that he angle of the approach to that front right pin to be more exciting and fun to play. You just have to be able to have faith in the bump and run shot, even attempted with a 6 or 7 iron from 100 yards or less everytime. Aim it left and the ball will run into the hole perfectly and it will slow before it hits that extreme right and then takes off for the back. I can even do this from the left side of the hole too, and I especially don't get what Ed is talking about in regards to weak--its anything but that! It such a great hole to get a hole back in a match.

I do agree with Ed a bit though on #9. I still think a few (5 or 6) small and hidden and partially hidden bunkers spread throughout the hole ala #12 on the Old Course would be fun there. Make the other shots more to think about instead of just the approach.

[Brian_Gracely]

I'll take 1, 16 and 17 as being the weakest at Rustic.  

#1 is a Par4, but somehow there is a typo on the card.

#16 is a 5 iron off the tee (hit more if your ego demands, but it's not needed) and a 5/6/7 iron approach....depending on how much you want to watch it bounce and roll.  I actually think the approach is the one that requires the least amount of skill and the most luck on the course.  Luck is fine, it adds to the variety, but it's more luck than skill in getting it to bounce correctly on those front left mounds.

#17 is just sort of blah to me.  I remember it, but not in the sense of "wow, that was a cool hole to play".