Trump International Golf Links - Design and Layout

[Brian_Ewen]

I posted these on , one of the many threads , on this course .

[Bill_McBride]

The ponds throw me a bit. Purely for irrigation? Purely for play? I just don't tend to think of ponds when I think of links courses. Am I missing something?

Kirk,

I also noticed the number of "ponds".  Seems unlinks-like based on my experience.  I can think of many classic links with meandering burns, but none that have ponds or wetland areas.  Anybody think of any with natural wetland areas.  In any event, the wetlands (seasonally maybe shallow ponds-like) are there. As a naturalistic/minimalist design, don't they have to stay?  Is this site unique in Scottish links sites in having those wetland areas?

Westward Ho!?    Here's the club's website with #10, "Rush." where the tee shot is blind over a wetland with "rushes."  Ample precedent!
http://www.royalnorthdevongolfclub.co.uk/10.html

[Adam Lawrence]

It also depends on the nature of those wetlands. At Askernish when I first went there - in early March - there were several areas that were virtually under water. But you go back in the summer and those areas are generally dry. We're not talking about permanent large lakes. Or at least, I don't think we are.

[Niall C]

Adam

I assume that even if the "lake" dried out during the summer it would be left uncut therefore still serving the same strategic function. I also would guess that it is there because its below the water table and presumably Scottish Nature or whoever is overseeing wouldn't let them raise it.

Niall

[Greg Tallman]

  No. 10 is a three shot hole for most of us. It does appear longer from the right but more open.

         Anthony

What is it, a long par 3?

[Brian_Ewen]

A few pics from the beach :

[Mike Nuzzo]

I've never seen square tees in Scotland
The fairways look homogenized
Why isn't that cool dune more in play in the last couple pictures

[David_Tepper]

"I've never seen square tees in Scotland."

Mike -

Are you sure about that? Seems to me that is just about all I have seen.

DT

[Jason Walker]

I'm with you there David.  I've seen nothing but squared tees in my dozen-plus rounds in Scotland.  Maybe not the squarest squares as the Donald can pull off, but pretty square nonetheless.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thanks guys
FYI
I only play North Berwick and The Old Course...   

[Bryan Izatt]

Brian,

Thanks for the pictures.  Are the fairways as wide as they look.  They look mammoth compared to Royal Aberdeen, for instance.


Mike,

Not to pile on, but the first tees (and others) at TOC and NB are rectangular.   

What do you mean by homogenized fairways?  No humps and bumps?

[Jim Nugent]

The fairways look homogenized

Brian can clarify, but I think those pictures are all of the same hole - we're seeing just one fairway there. 

Brian Ewen: any thoughts about what you saw?  Also, is the hole you photographed #15? 

[Scott Warren]

"The views from the tee are unparalleled in golf".

What a wank!

[Niall C]

Brian

Many thanks for posting those photo's. A couple of comments.

There looks to have been a serious amount of planting of marram (?) grass of fairway. I wonder if that will work in the long term or will the shifting dune system continue to work its influence.

Second point, for such as dramatic landscape the fairways do look fairly bland. Perhaps an unfair comment based on a couple of photos  but you would hope that they would have used the existing topography to create interest rather than creating generally flat fairways simply running between dunes. I wonder if the Irish construction crew worked on the European ?

Niall

[Jud_T]

"the standards for the golf experience in Scotland will be taken to new levels of excellence by the addition of Trump International Golf Links."

OK-given what you know thus far, if booking an advance trip to the area and cost not being a factor, how do you split 10 rounds between Trump, Royal Aberdeen and Cruden Bay?

[Tom_Doak]

One of the things I discovered by reading Martin Hawtree's 200-page report on Royal Melbourne (!) was that he believes tees should be "ennobled" to give them more prominence in the landscape.  He wanted to build rectangular tees on all 36 holes at Royal Melbourne.  They did not take his advice, though.

One interesting thing about the pictures [which are only of the same two holes] is that they planted the greens first ... can't tell whether they have been seeded or sodded, but if seeded, they were done at least a month before the fairways.  That's unusual, and I wonder why it was done?

[Scott Warren]

Tom,

A couple of months ago you didn't like me mentioning the fact that you had replaced Martin as consulting architect at RM, but now you're publicly taking the piss out of the advice he gave the club.

That's some progress!

[Tim Nugent]

Tom, that is indeed odd.  Perhaps due to the wind, they seeded the greens early so they could nuke any seedlings that came up in the surrounds prior to seeding other grass species. (I notice the slit fence being used as a wind break in one of the pictures - behind a tee). Only other thing I can think of is they only have very limited water a the moment because the fairway irrigation would probably already be installed. Or maybe it's an experiment with the grass  and they wanted enough time to change it if they didn't like it..

[Niall C]

My bet would be that they have been turfed but then I'm the non-gca in this conversation.

Niall

[Brian_Ewen]

Just to confirm, the photos are of holes 14 and 15.

Anybody want to chip in, whether they look on schedule for opening next summer ?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Who actually took these photos of 14 & 15?... I had them sent on to me as well (plus a few others)...

Aside from the squareness of the tees (which is far from rare on British links), I think that you're being a little unfair, Tom... They are hardly built up on pods after all.... Most seem to enter back and side near grade to my eye anyway... Very different to how you'd build them maybe...

When I was there, that area front and left of 15 tees was very wet and the discussion was around whether to drain it (and therefore how to leave it aesthetically) or whether to embrace the water...

I'm not sure how much contour was in the fairways in original form. I only saw the back nine post the initial grading... Scott, SOL (the Irish construction crew) will be working to drawings and specs provided by the designers.... They won't have made the choice on whether or not to retain existing fairway contours...

[Alister Matheson]

The greens and tees are being turfed and the fairways seeded. Also loads of links courses have squared off tees .

[Ian Andrew]

One interesting thing about the pictures [which are only of the same two holes] is that they planted the greens first ... can't tell whether they have been seeded or sodded, but if seeded, they were done at least a month before the fairways.  That's unusual, and I wonder why it was done?

I assumed they were photoshopped.
The colours look "too" perfect and there is no blown sand anywhere.

[Kalen Braley]

One interesting thing about the pictures [which are only of the same two holes] is that they planted the greens first ... can't tell whether they have been seeded or sodded, but if seeded, they were done at least a month before the fairways.  That's unusual, and I wonder why it was done?

I assumed they were photoshopped.
The colours look "too" perfect and there is no blown sand anywhere.

+1

Ian I thought the same.  They did indeed look too good to be true.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:

I thought they looked photoshopped, too, but why the heck would someone photoshop the tees and greens and not the fairways?


Ally:

How was I being unfair?  I didn't comment at all about the tees at Trump International, and the only one I can really see in the photos looks fine.  I'm not a fan of square tees, and I certainly didn't think Martin's suggestion of square tees for Royal Melbourne was appropriate since that was never what was there.  But all I meant to imply about the tees at Trump is that Martin is apparently a big fan of rectangles, so I would guess all the tees are that way.

I did find YOUR comment about the contractors interesting, that they would not be making any decisions, and just building the course to plans and specs provided by the designer.  I'm sure they would say the same, to avoid stepping on toes.  But, do you really think that's the best way to go about a project?