Why does Bull's Bay fly "under the radar" (w/ pics)?

[Michael Whitaker]

Here are a few pixs of Bulls Bay from the 2006 Dixie Cup:


Roller Coaster green on par 4 11th hole


Another view of 11th green (front to back)


Par 3 12th


Tee shot on par 5 13th


Behind 13th green


View of 14th green from 13th green


Par 3 14th


14th green


View from 15th tee


18th from tee


Approach on 18th


View of 18th hole from clubhouse

[Matt_Ward]

Michael W:

Thanks for sharing the pics -- the place looks good.

Like I said before -- SC's golf picture is hurt when a Bull's Bay is not even in the top 25. I've played a good sampling of courses in the Palmetto State and Bull's Bay would most certainly make my top 25 -- candidly, it would a lot closer to top 10 than the botton of a top 25 rating.

[Jay Flemma]

Nice pix Mike!    Good to see you.

[Andy Hughes]

Michael, thanks for the pictures. #12 looks straight out of True Blue.  Look forward to playing there.

[Mike Sweeney]

Love the look of this place.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike S:

Great post -- hats off to Michael W and the folks who participated in the SC poll that was mentioned.

I'd be more than able to put up a vigorous push for both Bull's Bay and Musgrove Mill to make the state's top ten. Both are uniquely designed and suffer from a lack of attention for a whole host of reasons. At least the panelists on that rating effort understand what they do provide.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Like I said before -- SC's golf picture is hurt when a Bull's Bay is not even in the top 25. I've played a good sampling of courses in the Palmetto State and Bull's Bay would most certainly make my top 25 -- candidly, it would a lot closer to top 10 than the botton of a top 25 rating.

http://www.scgolfpanel.org/Rankings/50Best_PressRelease2008.htm

I don't understand how Palmetto is ranked where it is.

The place is PURE.

[Rob Rigg]

Based on the array of cart paths it looks like it could be a great setting for go-cart races. I assume, based on the photos, that no one ever walks? Bit of a shame as the terrain changes are not daunting and it would appear that Stranz provided a great deal of food for thought for the golfer who takes the scenic route.

Interesting topo with the man made hill and clearly some thought provoking holes.

[paul cowley]

Rob....the course is very walkable.

[Sam Morrow]

Yeah, from what I know, its a very private place with a very limited number of members. So it does not get a high volume of rounds. I have also heard some people say that overall, its not really an awesome place. I have never played, so I don't know.

What exactly constitutes it not being an awesome place? You're pretty vague.

[John Shimp]

I agree on Palmetto's rankings and others.  How can you have the 2 keowee vineyards courses close to top 10 and courses like Palmetto, Camden, Dye at Colleton river, CC of Charleston well after?  Cassique is also way over rated.  Odd list.

[Matt_Ward]

The flaw w Digest state ratings is that it enables "guest" raters from other locales to weigh in and likely such visits are "one shot" deals. Often times the totality of such places is based primarily on the respective ad / marketing campaigns and you get a number of other courses that likely little is known by the "outsider" but those from within the state would know better.

This happens quite frequently - state ratings need to be handled by those from that state. They see and play the coruses there far more freqeuntly. I'm not saying outside votes are not warranted but they should be scaled accordingly to the amount of rounds played at the courses that are mentioned.

Too many resort courses get mentioned because they are quite effective at the "hype" game. There are, in my experiences in traveling, far more layouts than one can imagine where little is known save for the people who really understand what a given state can provide.

The Digest ratings of SC courses really drives home that point with the omission of Bull's Bay, to name just one example.

[Jay Flemma]

Jay:

Great addition with the photo of #2 -- a superb par-5 with a range of fascinating options and decisions to be made.

Gents:

I can't fathom how Bull's Bay doesn't even make SC's top 25 as defined by Digest. Strantz did superb job and even though there's some sharp shaping by man's hand -- the totality of what is there is years beyond a number of other courses that get plenty of ink but have so little in terms of sheer entertainment and varied shot requirements.

Yeahy, Matt, I love number 2...13 as well.  And yes the course is man made.  It was a tomato field with one foot of elevation change.

And of course, no discussion of Bulls Bay is complete without a picture of the mascot, Titleist the Bull, posing here with some of the Baylor Bears:

[Dan Herrmann]

It's been what, 3 years since the Dixie Cup at BB?

I still remember my day at BB with great fondness.  Everything about the place just spoke to pure fun and enjoyment of the game.  There were no faux attitudes here - everybody that worked there was very friendly and accomodating.

Wonderful location, in the middle of nowhere.  The entrance off US17 is very understated, but you know you're headed to something special. 

I, like most folks here, am a believer in minimalism.  BB is NOT  minimalist course.  But who cares?  It's really a special place that deserves more recognition.

Is it one of the top 50 courses in the world?  Heck no.  But it is a course that brought Laura and me a lot of joy, and for that, I'm always going to be thankful.

I just love the place!

[Mike Nuzzo]

Mike Nuzzo....

Yes it is man-made.  I played there a few years ago and, prior to my round, I went to their website to take a look.  I was shocked when I saw the clubhouse hill.  You'd be hard-pressed to find that kind of hill ANYWHERE in the South Carolina Lowcountry.

A member told me the amount of dirt they trucked in on a nearly 24-7 basis...but the number of zeroes in the number escapes me now.  Needless to say, it's a big number.

The course is one of my favorites.  And I'm not just saying that because I shot even-par on the front.

Thank you.
The picture from above looks like a model & mad made - but the image from below the clubhouse looks like way too much dirt to move.

I'll guess 3.3MM yards

Dan,
Why isn't it one of the top 50?
What holds it back?

[RJ_Daley]

IIRC, Didn't Mike Strantz actually post on here when he was in the process of contructing Bulls Bay? I thought he did actually comment that it was some 3.x million cy.  Maybe somebody that can get the balky search feature of this web site can look it up.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike - I want this thread to be positive, so I'll be brief.

I don't think #2 (the "U" shaped par 5) is very good, and I didn't like the similarities of 9 and 18.

But those are very minor nits.  VERY.

Keep in mind that I only played it once, and my opinions aren't "expert" in anyway.

It's a helluva place and it provided one of the funnest days of golf I've ever had.

[jeffwarne]

Sage Valley at #2 demonstrates the validity of this list.

Evidently the raters were into green jackets (hasn't that been done?), rye grass, and bagpipes (in the Carolina tradition of course )