Why does Bull's Bay fly "under the radar" (w/ pics)?

[Brian Cenci]

Just curious as to why Bull's Bay (Charleston, SC) seems to not get as much attention or notice as compared to other Strantz courses?  Having played it only once this past year I really enjoyed it (except for a dumb par 5, 13th).  It just doesn't seem to get as much attention as Tobacco Road, Royal New Kent and others and IMO is just as good.  Is it because it is semi-private or is it others opinions that it just doesn't measure up to his other work?  Thoughts?

[paul cowley]

Its an awesome fun course.....probably not enough play/exposure.

[John Kavanaugh]

Brian,

If you had never found this site do you think you would have sought out a Strantz course?  It's like going to a museum to see a Miró.

[John Moore II]

Yeah, from what I know, its a very private place with a very limited number of members. So it does not get a high volume of rounds. I have also heard some people say that overall, its not really an awesome place. I have never played, so I don't know.

[Brian Cenci]

Brian,

If you had never found this site do you think you would have sought out a Strantz course?  It's like going to a museum to see a Miró.

Yea..I had seen pics of Tobacco Road and wanted to play it prior to being a GCA junkie

[Joel Zuckerman]

Brian says semi-private and John K says very private.....my experience there (about 5 rounds played, and the course itself, architect and owner all featured in separate chapters in my book "Golf Charms of Charleston") would vote for private, though perhaps things have changed in the 3--odd years since I last played there?

It's a fun round, very wide-open and windswept, with HUGE (for Charleston, anyway) elevation changes--downhill off the first and 10th tee, way up to 9, I think 15, and 18 green.  My problem is that BB is the only Strantz Course I've seen in person--never been to Tobacco Rd, or Monterey.  But I know it has a good reputation in Charleston as one of the nouveau courses in the region worth playing.

[RJ_Daley]

It has to be the numbers of folks that actually get to play there.  While probably anyone can come away with a criticism or two, the overall golf there is great, IMO.  

BTW, I love the photos of the CH behind 15(?) with the looming grey skies.  I would love to be there at such a moment.

[John Kavanaugh]

Joan Miró i Ferrą (April 20, 1893 – December 25, 1983) was a Spanish Catalan painter, sculptor and ceramist born in Barcelona.

Earning international acclaim, his work has been interpreted as Surrealism, a sandbox for the subconscious mind, a re-creation of the childlike, and a manifestation of Catalan pride. In numerous interviews dating from the 1930s onwards, Miró expressed contempt for conventional painting methods as a way of supporting bourgeoise society, and famously declared an "assassination of painting" in favor of upsetting the visual elements of established painting.

[Matt_Ward]

John K. Moore:

Just to update you -- Bull's Bay is not mega exclusive and if someone were interested in playing the course you would find the reaction to be a good bit more forthcoming that what you were led to believe.

I've been there and I know firsthand the very welcome attitude shown by the club.

Brian Cenci:

Bull's Bay is vastly underappreciated and for al the hype (justified or not) for other Strantz courses -- the Charleston-area layout should be easily among the Palmetto's State top 25 and for some strange reason the brain trust that Digest uses for its ratings clearly goofed on that omission.

I can make a good case that the course can make SC's top ten overall courses. If you want another layout that gets far too little attention is Musgrove Mill (known to many simply as "The Mill") -- in my mind, the best AP design I have ever played. Few people talk about that layout in Clinton as well.

Bull's Bay clearly has the involvement of man's hands but I like the drive-up to the clubhouse and the way the land just falls away from that central point. I really like the swinging dog-leg left nature of the 2nd hole -- at 597 yards it's well done -- for all the talk that the 13th at the Dunes Club gets --the 2nd at Bull's Bay takes no back seat when the two are held together for comparison purposes in my mind.

The 18th, in my mind, presents a somewhat similar sense to the 9th hole finish at Shinnecock whereby the green is set above you with the clubhouse tugging so close nearby.

Brian, no doubt Bull's Bay deserves a good bit more attention -- unfortunately, many people make the incorret assumption that quality golf in the greater Charleston area is the domain of only Kiawah and Yeaman's Hall -- they realy need to expand their education of quality golf with a visit there.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Agree completely with Matt.  Not only can you get on Bull's Bay my understanding from a Yeoman's Hall member friend is that BB is quietly interested in attracting more members.  It's a fine Stranz layout.

JC   

[Joel Zuckerman]

And one more note--the Membership Director is a delightful gal named Lea Anne Brown, a wonderful golfer who is married to long-time CC of Charleston Head pro Hart Brown.  Lea Anne serves as the club's de facto designated golfer, and is charged with taking out prospects and showing (IE--playing) the course.  She has recruited many dozens of members over the years, despite (or maybe because?) of the fact she will shoot a notably lower score than her prospect 90% of the time!

Very cool lady, very cool club.

[Mike Sweeney]

It's like going to a museum to see a Miró.

Ok, I'll bite. Where did Jaka see an Miro in Southern Illinois, or was it in your vacation house in LA?

[John Kavanaugh]

I bought and sold art to help pay for college.  I also once entered an art contest using dry water colors to paint a Miró like image on canvas.  I was doing quite well until the rumor circulated that I was an engineering student on a goof.  That all being said you have to admit the tid bit about Miró I posted clearly defines Strantz.

It does seem that mid-level artists of their type can gain a certain recognition during their lifetime but quickly fade away when the initial spark is gone.

[Jerry Kluger]

I played BB a few years ago with a couple of members who explained that the club was originally to be owned by the members but they were unable to get enough to support the club and it was bought by a trial lawyer who I believe is from North Carolina.  I think that Strantz saw it as a members club so it  isn't as visually striking as his other courses but still has plenty of strategy designed into playing the course.  The concept of building the hill and placing the clubhouse at the top is surely unique but makes walking a bit of a challenge and the clubhouse is not much for a private club.   South Carolina has so many courses that the competition is very tough and BB is a bit out of the way when visiting the Charleston area.  To me, if I were living on the north side of Charleston I would certainly want to be a member at BB.

[Joel Zuckerman]

it was bought by a trial lawyer who I believe is from North Carolina. 

And not just any trial lawyer...The owner of BB was one of the principals who got Big Tobacco to pony up for all the health woes cigarettes have caused, and his remuneration was rumored to be NINE FIGURES, payable over 20 years time.  (And a hell of a way to start the New Year, might I add...one walk to the mailbox on January 2nd, go cash the check and take the rest of the year off!)

[Jay Flemma]

I played BB a few years ago with a couple of members who explained that the club was originally to be owned by the members but they were unable to get enough to support the club and it was bought by a trial lawyer who I believe is from North Carolina.  I think that Strantz saw it as a members club so it  isn't as visually striking as his other courses but still has plenty of strategy designed into playing the course.  The concept of building the hill and placing the clubhouse at the top is surely unique but makes walking a bit of a challenge and the clubhouse is not much for a private club.   South Carolina has so many courses that the competition is very tough and BB is a bit out of the way when visiting the Charleston area.  To me, if I were living on the north side of Charleston I would certainly want to be a member at BB.

Joe Rice is from Charleston.  I just think it flies under the radar simply because it's private.  That being said, they are outstandingly kind to outside visitors.  The [place is also a museum to Mike's memory.

It's truly a special place.  You feel apart from the rest of the world when you're there for a few days.

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/somewhere_in_heaven_mike_strantz_is_smiling

[BigEdSC]

Pretty much of what everyone says here is true.  BB does fly under the radar because it's on the opposite side of town from Kiawah and it is a private course.  The initiation fee is also one of the higher ones in town.

They also have a great staff with Lea Anne Brown, Terry Florence, Ricky Sullivan and Ray Franz.  There is also a lot of the better players in town out there.

[John Kavanaugh]

[RJ_Daley]

I gotta hand it to ya.  That painting compared to the aerial photo from the 13th FW down to the 14th green up to the CH and over to the parking area is amazing!!!!

[Jay Flemma]

Good try barney, but this is more like it.



somebody else found this pic...it is funny:



and one more for good measure

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

Great addition with the photo of #2 -- a superb par-5 with a range of fascinating options and decisions to be made.

Gents:

I can't fathom how Bull's Bay doesn't even make SC's top 25 as defined by Digest. Strantz did superb job and even though there's some sharp shaping by man's hand -- the totality of what is there is years beyond a number of other courses that get plenty of ink but have so little in terms of sheer entertainment and varied shot requirements.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Is that hill man made?

[David Neveux]

I found $20 in the right cabbage on 2 looking for a friends ball....and no it was not a poo dollar!!  Great course, visually stunning 9 and 18.  Reminds me a bit of Arcadia Bluffs 18th and the ascent to the clubhouse.  Someone please post that painting of Stranz in the clubhouse, that thing is AWESOME!!

[RJ_Daley]

 

[Doug Spets]

Mike Nuzzo....

Yes it is man-made.  I played there a few years ago and, prior to my round, I went to their website to take a look.  I was shocked when I saw the clubhouse hill.  You'd be hard-pressed to find that kind of hill ANYWHERE in the South Carolina Lowcountry.

A member told me the amount of dirt they trucked in on a nearly 24-7 basis...but the number of zeroes in the number escapes me now.  Needless to say, it's a big number.

The course is one of my favorites.  And I'm not just saying that because I shot even-par on the front.