[Phil_the_Author]

Reading something brought to mind a phrase that my father used to say, and it is one that many here have heard before, that the best golf courses will cause the player to use "every club in the bag."

Regardless of the truth in this, for those archies on board, do you ever take into account trying to design a course that will cause the better, not necessarily the best, but the decent to very good player to use as many clubs as possible on a course that you're designing?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Phil,

All other things being equal, I do try to vary the distances and "effective distances" considering wind and elevation changes, of the typical approach shot, but fitting the land is probably more important.   Golfers occaisionally comment on too many approaches of the same length in a row, etc. so I think they still notice a balance of shots.

That said, golfers also use one swing anymore, rather than the old days when each club type seemed to require a different type of swing (pre balanced, matching shafts) so its not as important as it was, IMHO.  Better golfers seem to recall different types of shots being required, which becomes  a more important design criteria for me.

You could hit three 6 irons in a row requiring high, low, wind directions, lie slope, , high or low spin, fade, draw, etc., and each would be a quite different shot.

[Tom_Doak]

Phil: 

I think that idea is somewhat overrated.  Most people don't drive the ball a consistent distance, so mapping out how long their approach shots are going to be is highly speculative.

These days, we are happy if we can build a handful of holes where scratch players will hit something other than a driver and a wedge.

[Jeff_Brauer]

TD,

You don't consider the half wedge, 3/4 wedge, full wedge, to be enough variety?

[Joel Zuckerman]

On a semi-related note, and coming from a golf writer's, and not an architect's perspective---I cannot think of a greater cliche than "using every club in the bag" when it comes to describing a golf course..it is the ultimate indication that the guy behind the word processor is new at the job, or just doesn't know what the heck he/she is doing....

[Jeff_Brauer]

Joel,

Is there a discussion group for golf writers where you try to come up with different cliches to share?  It seems like many writers do reuse the same ones....of course so do the gca's -"best land for a  golf course I have ever seen" "God meant this to be a golf course" etc.

The lowest form of golf architecture writing is undoubtedly the yardage book summary, however......"you want to miss the fw bunker on the left....." "club selection is critical" etc.

[Joel Zuckerman]

Jeff,

It reminds me of the wise man who educated me about the silliness, goofiness and general embarrasment of wine writing--I derided the pretentious vernacular in the various wine mags-- "amusing, mischevious, noble, buttery, oaky, smoky, tangy, delicate, fruity, full-bodied, etc."  He told me something that resonated deeply--"It's a difficult task because you attempt to describe how something tastes with mere words."

Same with writing entertainingly and informatively about golf courses.  It's hard to use the language to convey a sense of how a golf course looks, plays, and makes you feel.  That's why doing it well is a difficult task, and why I personally attempt to take a different tack. 

[Carl Nichols]

The lowest form of golf architecture writing is undoubtedly the yardage book summary, however......"you want to miss the fw bunker on the left....." "club selection is critical" etc.

Jeff:
How about when the GPS on the cart has "tips" from the pro or architect that say things like "Drive it long and straight here" [my favorite] or "This shot calls for a perfectly hit mid-iron"?   

[John Moore II]

I might say that it is not terribly important. But that being said, I can't think of any course that I would consider to be in my personal top 10 where I did not use all 14 clubs. It is not necessary to have 'all clubs in the bag' used, but I think the great ones always do (or at least did when they opened).

[A.G._Crockett]

I might say that it is not terribly important. But that being said, I can't think of any course that I would consider to be in my personal top 10 where I did not use all 14 clubs. It is not necessary to have 'all clubs in the bag' used, but I think the great ones always do (or at least did when they opened).

John,
I agree, speaking from a player's perspective.  While hitting every club in the bag doesn't necessarily make a course good, it is pretty sure that I won't be likely to come back if I don't get to hit a variety of shots. 

[Matt_Ward]

Jeff B hit onto something I wish to flush out further.

It's not the need to hit every club in the bag -- it's the wherewithal to have shot control -- being able to move the ball both ways -- being able to vary trajectory as called upon with a full range of different clubs. In addition, being able to hit shots from varying lies and stances. Great courses go beyond the simple statement of "every club in the bag" and include a range of skills beyond just that limited usage.

In todays age -- TD is quite correct -- the top players will likely have few holes where driver / wedge is not part of the process. Getting a few into the mix is no small task.

[Matt OBrien]

I never thought about this until I played Merion for the first time. I walked off number 18 thinking wow, I think I hit every club in the bag. Not only did I hit all 14 clubs, I was forced to hit different typed of shots. I feel this is a unique feature that many courses today do not provide. If I wanted to go out and hit 14 drivers followed by 14 4 or 5 irons then I will stay at the range and hit balls. There needs to be more courses that focus on variety rather then length.

[TX Golf]

Matt O.

Olympic would probably fulfill that same quota of drivers and 4 or 5 irons...

[Sean_A]

I don't believe there is any connection between good design and the number of clubs used during a round.  As one who believes that the max number of clubs allowable should be more like 8 or 9 (and that a loft range of say 15-50 degrees should be in place), I certainly can't stand behind the idea thats its important to hit all 14 clubs.  I think good golf is more about using the same clubs differently in different situations rather than using every club in the bag.  The better a player is the fewer the clubs he should "need".  In other words, 14 clubs is a crutch and its about time we took the crutch away.

Ciao 

[Matt OBrien]

I have not played olympic but the one course that comes to mind in Philly is Aronimink

[Andy Hughes]

Every course I play I use every club in my bag. Of course, I tend to carry 7 or 8 clubs so its likely easier for me.  The whole concenpt, though, seems a bit silly to me--I could play a course back to back days and use entirely different clubs for most of the holes. I play ok but my range of drives is rather wide--and that likely applies to almost everyone. It reminds me of the story of  Vardon not being able to play the same course twice in one day as his tee shots always ended up in his old divots.

PS Matt, did you mean Jeff's idea should be fleshed out, or flushed? 

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

I said that jokingly -- glad you picked up on it.

Yes, fleshed out !

Candidly, great courses make you work the ball because hitting it dead straight today is not that demanding for players of relative skill. The technology with drivers does so much in this regard.

Working the ball from both sides and being able to include the appropriate trajectory are elements of a superior design. No matter the wind conditions it forces the player to play different shots as called upon. In the end result, that may mean playing a wide range of clubs or it may mean playing the same club a variety of ways throughout the round.

[Tony Ristola]

On a semi-related note, and coming from a golf writer's, and not an architect's perspective---I cannot think of a greater cliche than "using every club in the bag" when it comes to describing a golf course..it is the ultimate indication that the guy behind the word processor is new at the job, or just doesn't know what the heck he/she is doing....

Well, that "ultimate indication" would place Colt and one architect of favor in the "just doesn't know what the heck he/she is doing...." Dept. or "didn't know what the heck they were doing at the time Dept."

Quoting: " We want a good mix of par-three, par-four and par-five holes and a variety of lengths within each class so that during a round the player must handle each of his clubs". This is the "architect of favor" quote.

See Colt's Essays for the other.

Colt of course was using a graphite or ink word processor.

I think it can all be summed up with "variety".

[Mark Manuel]

I have played many poor golf courses where the par 3's require the same club or within one club either way for each hole.  That aspect of design has always troubled me.  Is it that hard, architecturally, to come up with a set of par 3's that have enough of a yardage difference?

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