Pat C:
I agree Kemper/Sports and Bandon/Resorts and what they do is important to cover. No doubt whatsoever.
I just simply stated waiting to see a finished product would be the best and fairest way to get a total read on what has been done there. Hype is a great American pastime -- I simply think a more credible and lasting account comes only from seeing what the final work provides.
Rob:
With all due respect, where did I say I was not "excited?" I simply urged people to show a bit of restraint because people are weighing in thru 10 holes only at the grow-in phase.
My God, do people weigh in on the merits of a meal simply by having had only the salad portion? Or a movie trailer?
What people have to realize is that each course is a SEPARATE project -- what came before is a distinct and different element. No doubt the Bandon model deserves high praise for being the "new" golf mecca and bumping out of the top spot for core golfers places like Pebble Beach (and all its assorted courses) and Pinehurst Resort, to name two of the more noted facilities that have long held sway at the top of the charts.
I'll say this again -- I am looking forward to seeing what is finally done. But, I don't rate on partial assessments, whether they are good or bad at such an early stage.
Rob, you asked, "What about the commentary or photography of the course that you have seen on this site makes you think that people are taking the mickey?
Again, with all due respect, I am not making any comments on whether the comments from people to date are one way or the other -- I just simply said it might be best for people to show some sort of restraint until there's been some sort of actual playing of a completed course. I have seen other instances in which people have leaped off the cliffs with glowing reviews early on simply because "x" designer was involved or because of past courses in a given facility and the result for the one that came forward was a bit lacking.
Rob, I've weighed about the C&C layout at Bandon Trails and it does have its moments -- but there are flaws (the middle of the round) not up to the rest of the elements you see with the first and final thirds of the layout. There are people who see C&C's layout there as close to the grandeur of Pac Dunes and I don't see the utter consistency to merit that high a placement. Ditto the clear weaknesses among the final series of holes at the original 18 by Kidd.
Rob, there are people who make the assumption that if the name Bandon is involved then anything that comes out of that connection must be great. I don't doubt what Bandon the facility has done for golf and how it clearly has sparked the inner golf spirits of the core player. Mike Keiser has done a superlative job in taking his grand vision and engaging some of the best talent in design to make that happen.
How Old Macdonald turns out is an unknown at this point. If people wish to gush about an incomplete package -- that's their prerogative. All I said was for people to wait and see the completed work. I'm not saying that progress reports are meaningless but they should be used a guide to what might happen not as an automatic coronation.
Last item -- I appreciate the sneak previews that people do. I've enjoyed the info / pics that Mike N presented about Wolf Point and I congratulate the folks who are bringing forward designs that are attempting to be something beyond the cut'n paste 18-hole layouts that are dreadfully dull and uninspiring. People are free to promote their work -- and posters are free to say whatever they wish. My desire to urge a bit of restraint is nothing more then a prudent option that is fair to both the course in question and those other layouts not having all the pre-hype before they open.
Adam:
How predictable -- the Yoda of classic design has weighed in with his usual high altar admonishments.
I simply stated it's best to wait for the place to fully open before lining up and saying it's already one of the really top tier places.
Do we rate movies on the virtue of trailers?
We are now assessing courses through a "grow in" phase. That makes perfect sense.
I salute the PR machine Bandon has rolled out -- getting WSJ to do a preview piece is quite an accomplishment and no doubt testament to the courses that have previously opened there. But past triumphs do not mean future home run success. Just waiting for the full course to open is quite sensible -- however, when a bit of patience is asked for you get the typical classic school defenders who leap into their high horse saddle and cry foul for anyone who urges a bit of restraint until everything is ready to go.
I too am eager to see what happens with the newest addition at Bandon but I'm not going to jump off the cliff with incessant and inane Clayman bromides that my take is stacked on the preposterous twin positions of pettiness and jealousy. That was indeed inane on your part.
Your final statement concerning The Jersey Golfer and whether I have been comped is also completely unfounded and speaks of your own personal ignorance on that matter. I have always enjoyed my different times at Bandon and I've opined on what I have evaluated as being laudatory elements and those less so.
Adam - I thought you were a class guy who really understood that people can weigh in with different opinions and still be celebrated for such differences. Pardon me for my error in judgement on both counts.