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Adam Clayman

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Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« on: November 15, 2008, 01:16:03 AM »
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jim Nugent

Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 03:18:46 AM »
Geoff says about CPC, "the 18th hole in its original form was very dramatic. Sure, I don’t know how it played, but it certainly was dramatic looking. MacKenzie did not do a bad job on this hole, contrary to what has been said over the years."

What was Mac's original #18 at CPC, and how is that different from today's version?  Why did they change, could they go back to the original, and would that be a good idea? 

I enjoyed what Geoff said about Oakmont: that they could cut (all?) the rough, and the course would still play impossibly difficult, but become incredibly fun too. 
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2008, 08:40:59 AM »
He proposed a tee out on the rock outcrop with a swing bridge to get out to it. I don't think it was ever built.  Like others, I don't think its a bad hole, just sort of bland as is compared to the three that precede it.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Michael Blake

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Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2008, 09:36:20 AM »
Pretty accurate answer from Geoff, especially what I bolfaced.


Chip: What is the biggest challenge to the modern golf course architect?

Geoff: Financing and expectations. The first is obvious in light of recent news, the second is more of a comment about what Tom Fazio, Robert Trent Jones, Jack Nicklaus and others have left us as a legacy: 7,200 yards, par 72, $10-25 million to build a great course. A majority of people still think familiar names and big budgets translate to great golf, no matter how many examples there are saying otherwise. It’s why the game is in the mess it’s in and why so many of those courses are being redone within 10 to 15 years after opening. We are so far from realizing the game’s true potential through architecture that inspires. Thankfully though, there is a movement in the other direction and I’m proud to be a small part of it.




Nice website Chip. 






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John Kavanaugh

Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2008, 09:45:23 AM »
I really enjoy that if you follow the links on Chip's site to http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/top100.php you will see that they rank Sandpines above Rustic Canyon.

Chip, please keep us informed of your next excellent interview!!!  I'd also like to see a commentary from Mitzi now and then to get a wifes perspective.
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Jim Nugent

Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2008, 10:00:34 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on November 15, 2008, 08:40:59 AM
He proposed a tee out on the rock outcrop with a swing bridge to get out to it. I don't think it was ever built.  Like others, I don't think its a bad hole, just sort of bland as is compared to the three that precede it.

Jeff, maybe I'm wrong, I read Geoff as saying Mac built 18 differently than it plays now.  GS says, "I don't how it played, but it certainly was dramatic looking."  Suggesting the hole could be played, and looked dramatic. 

Can Geoff or anyone else clear up my confusion? 
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Adam Clayman

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Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 10:07:25 AM »
I'd disagree with Geoff when he states Merion is too short for major champ play.

Perhaps he's using it as a point to get the ball rolled back, but, as far as I know, lowest score wins. Regardless of length.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2008, 09:48:05 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on November 15, 2008, 09:45:23 AM
I really enjoy that if you follow the links on Chip's site to http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/top100.php you will see that they rank Sandpines above Rustic Canyon.

Chip, please keep us informed of your next excellent interview!!!  I'd also like to see a commentary from Mitzi now and then to get a wifes perspective.

John- My wife is petrified of you.
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Tom Naccarato

Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 10:10:50 AM »
John,
It is my opinion that these types of lists speak for themselves and eventually its no different then beating a dead mule. You should learn that.

Chip,
I would enjoy a round with the gurus sometime. I'd like to hear and figure out there take on things. It's actually interesting to hear the other side of the coin sometimes--just the other day while playing a round with Mr. & Mrs. Redanman at Arroyo Trabuco, I got to hear similar takes on golf course architecture from a single that they through in with us. The guy was just simply typical Orange County, all wallet (with nothing in it) and hardly any brain and even knew many of the Orange County Housewives from the TV show. It was interesting and I actually enjoyed playing with the fellow. I plan on making him into a student--just like me. When he's finished, I suspect his perception of Golf will be that of a Sport and not a Game and that indeed Orange County has maybe one or two golf courses of some half-way credibility. (completely opposite of John's creative postings)

Sandpines--Golf on the Oregon Dunes......Well sort of.....The golf is about another hour south of that....
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Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shaq She-lacks Goliaths
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 10:17:56 AM »
I thought I read on another CPC thread that there was fairway bunkering on #18 that a former president had filled. Perhaps I have confused holes.
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