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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2008, 11:04:36 AM »
I'd forgotten I'd picked up this article from the Public Ledger months ago.  No detailed architect info, but interesting nonetheless.  I wonder what the chances are that even through ownership changes, records of the first club minutes have been saved.  It would be neat to find out who all the architects were that placed bids for Melrose!

This from the January 2, 1927 edition of the Public Ledger:




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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2008, 02:15:38 PM »
Joe
Nice article.
And it would be rather illuminating to see who were the architects who bidded on the Melrose project.

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TEPaul

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2008, 07:49:31 PM »
I'll tell you one thing about that course and club and clubhouse back then---it had one helluva impressive and elegant driveway. One time I actually went around the course and followed where it went back then.
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Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2008, 01:15:31 AM »
TE
Do you think it was a Mackenzie or Maxwell driveway? ;)
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2009, 09:52:05 AM »
An update to this Melrose thread.  While at the Temple Library Sunday I was looking through the 1930 Evening Bulletin on microfilm and this rather interesting article by Joe Dey turned up, from March 14.  I had wondered what this "Penn Country Club" was for awhile now, and also note that Dey calls the layout a MacKenzie design constructed by Maxwell.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 09:58:45 AM by Joe Bausch »
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

David Stamm

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2009, 10:48:22 AM »
I think the reference to the Portland course at Troon interesting. Once again, great stuff Joe!
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2009, 04:25:56 AM »
Joe
Thanks for finding and posting this. Interesting that by 1930 it appears Maxwell had been relegated to the constructor with Mackenzie taking the mantle as designer.

David
Where is the reference to Troon Portland? I couldn't see it. Sorry, but lost you there.

cheers Neil
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Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2009, 08:22:19 AM »
Neil

The reference to Troon Portland is in the right hand article in the opening post.
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2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mike_Cirba

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2009, 08:47:02 AM »
Wow...I just noticed for the first time that A.H. "Ab" Smith of Cobb's Creek and Philly public golf fame (as well as two-time Philly Amateur champion) was on the original "building committee" at Melrose!  

He sure got around!
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Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2009, 06:52:28 AM »
Thanks Andrew - I thought David was referring to the latest article that Joe posted.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2009, 09:26:59 AM »
Here's a bit more on Melrose.  The first article is from the Public Ledger (February 8, 1930), while the picture is from the May 4, 1930 edition of the Public Ledger.





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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2009, 05:27:54 PM »
One of the three articles in the original post of this thread came from the Urban Archives at Temple U.  When I looked up that article on microfilm, it must have come from a different edition of the paper as it has a bit more info in it.  It is from March 22, 1927 (Evening Bulletin).

« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 09:54:44 AM by Joe Bausch »
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2009, 09:49:00 PM »
Thanks for posting this Joe!
This version of the article adds a few more paragraphs I see, interesting.

I recently purchased some photographs of Melrose that once belonged to Maxwell, if people are interested I can post them, there are 4 I think.
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TEPaul

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »
It would be very interesting to try to get some kind of time and timeline for when and how often Maxwell was in Philadelphia. I'll see what I can find from Chris Clouser's book or some of the club records around here but the fact is Maxwell spent a ton more time in this town than Mackenzie ever did, and that might have something to do with the initial question of this thread about how much was Mackenzie involved in Melrose?

For instance, who was aware that Maxwell was a member of Pine Valley, not to mention that he did a lot of work around here on a fair number of courses? I just can't remember basically when he began here in this town.
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Tom MacWood

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2009, 06:35:57 AM »

Great info Joe. Did the announcement of Mackenzie's involvement come after Maxwell had drawn the plans?
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2009, 09:10:02 AM »
Quote from: Tom MacWood on December 11, 2009, 06:35:57 AM

Great info Joe. Did the announcement of Mackenzie's involvement come after Maxwell had drawn the plans?

According to JE Ford, yes!
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2009, 09:30:56 AM »
Joe:

You sure have done such a great job with all these old, long unseen newspaper articles and I know it has taken you so much time and effort, so I hesitate to request much of anything else of you but if at all possible some mention of the dates on some of these articles sure would help and be much appreciated as it helps to fit things logically into timelining which is certainly a huge part of golf architectural analysis of those bygone days.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2009, 09:56:39 AM »
Quote from: TEPaul on December 11, 2009, 09:30:56 AM
Joe:

You sure have done such a great job with all these old, long unseen newspaper articles and I know it has taken you so much time and effort, so I hesitate to request much of anything else of you but if at all possible some mention of the dates on some of these articles sure would help and be much appreciated as it helps to fit things logically into timelining which is certainly a huge part of golf architectural analysis of those bygone days.

The most recent article now has the date added (it was also dated in the very first post of the thread), and I think all others are too.  I may later today go find Ted Hoyt's article (which I'm pretty sure he wrote at that time for the Evening Public Ledger).
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2009, 02:31:20 PM »
Joe
Would love to see the Ted Hoyt article. It is reproduced in Doak et al, but I think has no date. Good hunting!
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2009, 05:02:51 PM »
Quote from: Neil_Crafter on December 11, 2009, 02:31:20 PM
Joe
Would love to see the Ted Hoyt article. It is reproduced in Doak et al, but I think has no date. Good hunting!

The Hoyt article is from the March 22, 1927 edition of the Evening Public Ledger:

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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2009, 05:12:47 PM »
You know, back then you really do wonder if many of those newspaper reporters thought seriously about some of the things they said in their articles. The one above has a headline stating by the time Mackenzie did Melrose he had done MORE than 400 courses. I wonder if those reporters ever actually expected anyone to stop and think about that and do the math---eg in 24 years, more than 400 courses!?! That would be an average of about 17 courses per year for 24 years!   ???

No wonder he needed Perry Maxwell.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:14:29 PM by TEPaul »
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2009, 05:24:45 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on December 11, 2009, 05:12:47 PM
That would be an average of about 17 courses per year for 24 years!   ???


Perhaps the good doctor and Bendelow were more similar than you previously thought!   ;) ;D
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2009, 05:54:25 PM »
"Perhaps the good doctor and Bendelow were more similar than you previously thought!     ;) ;D"


I doubt that Joey, particularly after that article I read by Ted Hoyt that mentioned Bendelow had done more than 4,000 courses in something like 26 years.

I mean I realize that some people refer to Benedlow as the Pied Piper of golf course architecture but that's a lot of piping and a whole lot of pies.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:56:14 PM by TEPaul »
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Tom MacWood

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2009, 11:50:20 AM »
I think Ted might be off by 100. This is Mackenzie, Egan & Maxwell's advertisement from around the same period. Three hundred does seem high, but for three architects over a fairly long period and I'm sure AM was counting courses he advised that may or may not have done anything. Just look at all the courses he spoke to in Oz, NZ and SoAmerica in a realtively a short period. Based on that 300+ is plausible IMO.
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Niall C

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Re: Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2009, 12:22:23 PM »
Is "doing" three or four hundred courses in 24 years possible ? Well perhaps it is if what they are referring to is courses that they have either advised on, redesigns or complete new courses. A couple of days here and there offering advice on redesgns would soon add up.

Niall
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