Cataraqui-Changes to 17th Hole

[Evan_Smith]

I've been lucky enough to be a Member at Cataraqui G & CC in Kingston, Ontario for many years.  I think it's one of Stanley Thompson's 10 best designs.  Anyway, because of water restrictions that continue to get worse it was decided that we would put in a holding pond on the 17th hole, onw of the original Stanley Thompson holes (he remodeled holes and added 12 new ones).  When I first heard about this, I was against it because it would change the nature of the hole too much.  I figured if there should be a pond there, then Stanley would have put one in. 

The 17th hole is a dog leg right, and plays about 370 yards with OB all the way down the right side, and is usually into a pretty good wind.  There used to be 3 cross bunkers around the 240 mark off the tee that would make some people think twice about taking the short cut.  There was a natural waterway (albeit about 3 feet wide) that crossed the fairway around the 100 yard mark, but that was filled in sometime in the early to mid 1980's.  In recent years, about 30 yards beyond the cross bunkers, a lateral hazard was put in where the natural watercourse existed.  It was only about 7 feet wide, but it made the longer hitters think about taking the short cut, as the cross bunkers were no longer a threat to them.

Here is the tee shot from Oct. 2007.  The middle of the fairway is on line with the right edge of the Condo building on the far left.  The cross bunkers start around the middle of the middle Condo.


Here is the 2007 approach from just behind the cross bunkers.  This shot would leave you about 130 yards to the green.  You can see the lateral hazard about 30 yards beyond the bunkers.


And now the changes, this is from Aug. 2008. Here is the tee shot taken from nearly the same spot as the other picture, but the tee has been elevated a little bit to give you a better view of the hole.


Here is the approach from about 200 yards out which shows the dog leg nature of the hole.  The 2 condos you see in the background are the middle and the right condos from the 2007 picture.  I'm so glad they took out all of those crappy trees that were blocking the view of the hole.  I wish they had done that years ago so you could see the cross bunkers from the tee.


Here is a slightly closer view of the pond from about 150 yards out.  The photo from 2007 of the cross bunkers was taken behind and to the right of the Larch (beside the pond) about where the pond starts.


I know not too many of you have played Cataraqui but I'm wondering what people think about the changes?  There were other options for the holding pond, but this was the best option cost wise.

Evan

[Ian Andrew]

Evan,

I agree with you, Catarqui is definately one of Thompson's 10 best courses. I see it as probably the next best course after Banff, Jasper, Capilano, St. George's and Highlands Links.

That pond caught me off guard - the original plan was a pond near the tee on the 14th hole - to keep it out of play. I noticed the front bunker was altered too from the original form.

Who made the changes? Was it the the club or Doug Carrick?

[Robert Thompson]

Say it with me: "Out of character."

[Dan Boerger]

This is one course I would really like to play some day. That tree beside the pond also doesn't do a thing for me.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I have to agree with Ian and Rob, on two fronts.

First, Carataqui is a fine golf course; and, second, I was immediately startled after scrolling down to see the new pond. Definitely not ideal.

[Philippe Binette]

I just have a hard time understanding where the original hole (first picture) is going. Was it following the tree line on the right or around the single tree left by the lake.

Very generic change, another par 4 around a lake....

[Matthew MacKay]

I would agree with Ian that it may be the best Thompson after the 'big 5'. Westmount could be outstanding but too many changes have been made and consequently it has lost some of its Thompson flavour. I'd put St. Thomas up there as well.

I'll reserve judgment until I see the hole, but my initial reaction is that the pond was a bad idea.

[Evan_Smith]

Ian
  Yes, it was Doug Carrick that did the pond.  My dad was furious at the board for approving it.  He had a few other options including making a pond in front of the 3rd tee where there were already 2 natural sides in place.

Phillipe
  It's not a great picture to show the line of play, but that's why I tried to use the condo's in the background as guides.  The optimal drive would be a soft left to right shot starting in the gap between the left and middle condo.  Taking a chancier line would be to aim for the middle of the middle condo and hit it long and straight.  I tried to put a satelite photo from google maps on the post but it didn't turn out.  If anyone could help, I'd appreciate it.

In a perfect world, they would have just removed the trees between the tee and the cross bunkers and put the pond elsewhere, but unfortunately what is done is done.  I don't hate the hole, but I liked the old hole better.  The new hole does put a much higher premium on the tee ball though.

[Ryan Crago]

.

[Ryan Chin]

The right greenside bunker is Doug Carrick's "generic bunker style 6".

[Jeff_Mingay]

I wonder what Ryan Crago wrote, then erased 

[Philippe Binette]

There is a dot... I don't know

The thing is, I don't think the new hole is bad, just standard...

They could probably have ''protected'' the hole by putting the lake closer to the tee, out of play... but membership would probably think they would have paid the architect for nothing if they had done so...

[Ian Andrew]

Evan,

We (you? me?) really should do a profile of Cataraqui - for others to enjoy.
It's a great course.

My pictures are all pre-bunker renovation - so let me know if you have a good selection to post.

An interesting story, the left bunker on #17 was the last thing I ever worked on with the club. I never saw it finished.

Ian

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

So it's no coincidence the left bunker looks better than those on the right of the green in Evan's photos 

Here are write-ups on Cat from our "Canada's Top Golf Courses" piece featuring in the In My Opinion section at this web site:

JEFF MINGAY: I dislike the “term” but, Cataraqui is an excellent “member’s course”. Featuring an interesting collection of holes of varying length and difficulty, Cataraqui is easily walk-able, too. It’s the type of golf course I’d enjoy as a 10-handicap member, anyway. Stanley Thompson laid a new design over the original Cataraqui course during the late 1920s. Although it’s one of Thompson’s lesser-known designs throughout the world, Catarqui possesses some outstanding holes. Typical of Thompson’s work, the par 3s are particularly good. The second and fifteenth are long, brutish one-shotters, played uphill to elusive putting greens surrounded by hazards; the eighth is shorter, and less difficult, but definitely an interesting hole, too; and, the twelfth a classic drop-shot par 3 featuring a pond guarding the left-front of the putting surface and bunkers built into Thompson-esque mounds at rear. Catarqui’s par 4 first and eighteenth holes, separated only by a major roadway from the shore of Lake Ontario, occupy some very interesting terrain as well. (The eighteenth might be my favourite hole on the course). And, other stand out holes include the difficult, par 4 third (featuring an attractive, natural rock outcropping behind the green), the par 5 fourth (which possesses the most interesting green surface at Cataraqui), and the par 4 tenth. Writing this brief review makes me anxious to return to Cataraqui, actually!


BEN COWAN-DEWAR: Arguably one of Canada’s most charming courses, which despite its relative lack of length, still provides challenge and remains a joy to play. The strongest set of par threes that Stanley built, which is high praise given some of his tremendous work. The 2nd and 15th are among the very best long par threes I have ever seen, both playing uphill to targets that demand a great shot. The other two par threes are more modest in length, but equal in their exacting nature. From the near-perfect opening hole to the tremendous closing hole, the course moves across some dynamic land and proves a wonderful walk. The courses key weakness are the upper holes (5-7) that occupy the flattest land on the course and are a slight letdown after the superb opening four holes. Thompson’s work here is easy to spot and shows his sheer mastery.

[Evan_Smith]

Ian
  I think I have a full set of digital photos post bunker renovation.  I've often thought about doing a "My Home Course" Profile of Cat but I've never got around to it.  We should compare photos to see which ones really show off the course.  I also have the approach photos to every hole from circa 1933 from my Dad's book.  Well, not actually the photos, but I can scan them from the book.

Send me an email sometime and we can discuss it.