[Patrick_Mucci]

The Somerset Hills thread, especially the part about the old racetrack, with its high banked turns, being incorporated into the 6th and 7th holes, right in the middle of the fairway, got me thinking.

Would that feature have been allowed to remain today ?
Or would it have been obliterated in order to craft a "normal" fairway ?

What unique non-golfing features remain incorporated in the body of a hole ?

Did the ODG's, in a tribute to efficiency and cost, typically incorporate unique natural or unnatural features in their designs ?

What are some modern day examples of this ?

[Rich Goodale]

Was the 5th at Merion once part of a racecourse?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pat,

I think up through the 90's it would have been eliminated.  In recent times, probably much less tendency to do so as gca's try to create a sense of place to make a new course stand out.

[Phil McDade]

Patrick:

Certainly cost probably came into the equation for the ODGs in many circumstances. But not all; William Langford was known for using "lay of the land" features on courses to incorporate things like blind tee shots and turbo-boosted LZs, but he also utilized significant earth moving for his notably pushed-up green sits and bold bunkering.

Similarly, I was struck in some recent discussions about Maidstone how Park essentially dug under a dune to creat the fairway corridor on the famous 9th hole there. And Doak has been been pretty candid about some of the earth-moving done at Ballyneal and Pac Dunes (to reference Jeff's point) on courses considered "natural" in many respects.

[rjsimper]

Longleaf in Pinehurst features an old horsetrack.  Being that it's entirely flat, I don't really feel like it adds anything topographically to the course, but they've also left (or rebuilt) the white picket fencing through parts of the layout that you hit over/across and if nothing else makes for a unique visual.

Sorry, can't find a good photo on the net

[Tom Naccarato]

Patrick, I hate to add another race course to the mix, but the Santa Anita Golf Club used to be Lucky Baldwin's original Santa Anita Race Track. It was also a huge airship station for the Army before it became the hidden gem that it is today.

This hole, this magnificent hole is called a 'Redan.' (for those that don't know what a 'Redan' is.) It is the former 4th and final turn of the original Santa Anita Race Track. the course, while not modern was built in 1938 with WPA money for the County of Los Angeles.



It is for the most part, a hidden gem.

The 16th is a take-off of Pine Valley #13 and its green is in the 1st turn of the old race track.

[TEPaul]

"What unique non-golfing features remain incorporated in the body of a hole ?"


Pat:

We can't exactly prove it but we think Merion's #3 green sits right on what once was an old Pennsylvania "Bank" barn (I might have to explain what they are and why). Some of its foundation may be under that green. The other feature of Merion that we think was man-made are some of the large topographical grades inside the quarry on #17. To us it looks like the raised portion may've been a raised road to served quarrying operations.

[George_Bahto]

Renants of a race course are part of Piping Rock's course

[TEPaul]

George:

That's interesting. I grew up at Piping Rock and I have no idea at all what was there or whether it even was a club before Macdonald built a golf course there in 1913. Do you have any idea what Piping Rock Club was before the golf course?

Obviously there were polo fields there and maybe a race track that created a circumference around it but it had to be a flat track. I think that somewhat miniature grandstand that showed up on that 1913 article that George Holland just found had to be part of an old race track.

I don't even know when that clubhouse was built.

[Mike_Cirba]

Pat:

We can't exactly prove it but we think Merion's #3 green sits right on what once was an old Pennsylvania "Bank" barn (I might have to explain what they are and why). Some of its foundation may be under that green. The other feature of Merion that we think was man-made are some of the large topographical grades inside the quarry on #17. To us it looks like the raised portion may've been a raised road to served quarrying operations.

Tom,

Do you think anyone there would object if we sent over Indiana Joe(nes) (Bausch) and an archeological team to dig under that 3rd green hillside and see if we can uncover the original barn foundation?

Who knows, we might even find some plans in there!   Or, remnants of the original henhouse.. 

[JC Urbina]

The turn for the horse race track at Pasatiempo is still in place.  It's the slot cut into the fairway just past the landing area on the 16th hole.  The race track started up by the 14th tee ran along the players right of # 14 crossed the 16th fairway and then headed back up the players right of 13th fairway before turning behind the green and back to 14 tee.

[PCCraig]

Up until the 1970's, the 1st and 18th at The Country Club - Brookline were a race track!

They then grassed it over, but the two holes do form a perfect oval around the now range.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Northumberland, Great Yarmouth and Ludlow are played over active horse race courses. Highgate and Dunham Forest both play over enclosed reservoirs. Several holes at Lilleshall Hall play over what were once ice houses for the hall. There are remains of Roman roads crossing several English courses - Prenton, for instance. Older earthworks feature on Berkhamsted and Bath. Isn't the Swilcan Bridge meant to be on the site of some ancient bridge? Playing round the church in the middle of the course at St Enodoc is quite fun. Andy Levett pointed out that during our round at Crosland Heath we had several opportunities to pepper cars in the car park. It isn't part of the course, but the club house and car park are in the middle of the course.

[Jon Wiggett]

Old course, musselburgh has a race course as does Doncaster Town Moor. Howley Hall Morley, Leeds plays over the vaulted wine cellars of the old hall and the 17th green sits on the site of the old bowling green.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Jon, Thank you for reminding me of Leeds. It has quite a few unusual holes.

[Jason Topp]

I've played a couple of modern courses with Barns in play.

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