A Fan's Photo Tribute to Kingsley Club - 18th hole commentary now in progress

[Patrick Kiser]

Meant somewhat short and somewhat right to right center (not left ... duh!).  Also looks well below the hole from there.

Thanks for confirming the option.

On the 7th at Barnbougle, you can play just short and right of the green, and try to chip for par.

[Tim Bert]

Hole #3 is a par 4
420 from the Gold tee
387 from the Black tee

After walking off the 2nd green, the golfer welcomes an opportunity to take a free swing to a wide open landing area.  This mid-length par 4 offers plenty of room in the landing zone, but the preferred zone is not quite as wide.  The left side of this undulating fairway is preferable.  The golfer landing on the high side is rewarded with a clear view of the green from the fairway.  The ball that strays to the right faces a blind shot from the fairway at best, and a fairway bunker shot or even lost ball if the shot is played too far right.  The left side, while preferable, feels rather slim.  Too far left will roll off the fairway into the rough and down the hill, so a blind approach is possible from either side.

This green is enormous (I think it is one of the three largest, with #4 and #13 being the other two if I recall correctly.)  With the 2nd still haunting ones thoughts, the green feels and plays even larger than it really is - if that is possible.  The day we played the pin was on the front right section of the green.  The back right side of the green seemed as if it could be a different hole entirely, like a large double green.  A missed approach slightly left leaves a reasonable shot at getting up and down (at least when the pin is where we saw it - playing a chip from the left side all the way to the extreme right pin could prove challenging.)  Missing short and right will send the ball running even further right.  There are two greenside bunkers that also come into play when taking on the right side of the green.  The run up area to the left side is wide open, providing yet another opportunity to take advantage of the turf conditions.  The ball will run here, and a low flyer may be the best option, as long as the ball doesn't leak too far right. 

Not only is the green very large, but it is also wild and great fun.  It is one of many greens around the course where I could imagine spending an hour or so piddling around with some putts and chips.

From the tee


Another shot from the tee.  The 4th fairway is in view on the far right.


The approach from the left side


The fairway from the lower, right side


The approach to the front of the green.  The green extends even slightly further right than the view of this photo


The view of the green from the front


From just off the left side of the green


Looking back to the front left of the green from the far right


A look at the bunkers guarding the right side of the green
 

[Tom_Doak]

#3 might be my favorite hole on the course.  It's a cool driving hole ... very difficult to pick the correct line off the tee.  If you aim just a bit too far right you wind up in the hollow, and if you play too safely left you can go over and out.

[John Kirk]

When it's playing downwind, I can carry that first bunker, otherwise, it's a tricky drive, where I'm trying to use that crescent shaped ridge in the fairway to keep my ball on top.  3-wood or the changeup driver with a fade.

In the Peninsula Cup this year, we started our final round on #3.  From 138 yards in a light rain, I one-hopped an 8-iron into the hole for an eagle (front left position).  One of those "Wow. Just might be our day today." moments.

Approaching the right side of the green is difficult.  I believe this is the #2 handicap hole.

On the first day of this year's tournament, one of our competitors steps up and hits the ball 370 yards down the middle.  15-20 yards short of the green.  First shot we ever see this guy hit.  Could be a long day.  But the pin is front right, and he has almost no chance to get it close.  Gets a little too delicate, leaves it short of the ridge, and makes bogey.

We will revisit our immensely strong playing partner when we discuss the changes to #17.

[John Mayhugh]

I liked the look you get at 4 green & fairway on the way to the tee for the third hole.  Kind of hard to disengage from that hole and focus on the one you have to play.   I thought this was one of the better holes.  I found myself really afraid of losing it left and instead had to contend with a blind approach.  There were all sorts of shot possibilities around the green.  Wish I could play it sometime with the hole back right.

One additional photo of this green from behind.

[Brian Cenci]

Love the 3rd hole.  Always seems to be a stiff breeze in your face.  The play for most people here (unless your Big Nev) is left toward the Beech tree.  I always try and bite off a bunch of the hole toward the left and unless I clober one end up in the second bunker.  Last time I played I cleared the second bunker on the right but had a little gust behind me.  As far as the green goes I love the options, especially if you miss.  The last two times I played the hole I got up and down with the putter from about 30 yards off the front once and off the side the other time.  Really left is a nice bailout near the green.  

[George Freeman]

I really enjoy this hole.  I think it kind of flys under the radar at Kingsley b/c of the quality of the other holes.  What I really like is the fact that the better you know the hole, the much scarier and harder it becomes.  The initial time you play this hole, you stand on the tee thinking you could hit it just about anywhere and be OK (except way right into the hay).  The fairway is very wide, however as Tim mentioned, the ideal landing area is much smaller.  All three times I've played this hole I have been out of position too far left; which leaves a blind shot and brings the hollow short/right of the green much more into play.   I think the "ideal" landing area for the tee-ball could be disputable, depending on the pin position. 

Here are some additional photos from the website:







This picture is from right of the green and shows the large hollow short/right.  It feels much larger in real life!

[George Freeman]

And as John mentioned, one of the best parts of the hole isn't even actually the hole.  The walk from the 2nd green to the 3rd tee is fantastic with the 5th to your left, the 4th green right next to you, and the 6th lurking off in the distance.  The intamacy of the front nine is amazing.

[Mike_Cirba]

I don't think in either Tim or Tom D.'s description is it clear just how difficult it is to hit the fairway and have a good angle/view for the approach shot despite its width (more to come on that matter with the 4th hole).

Unless you take a quite aggressive angle from the tee, a tee shot further left will either a) leave a very long approach to an insane green, or b) funnel down into a deep bowl, leaving a completely blind approach to an insane green.

Only a drive that skirts/carries the first couple of right side bunkers and is place tight to the last one stays in a reasonable range for the approach.

Last summer I hit a perfect drive, and was left with a 3/4 8-iron into a medium breeze to a front pin.

I missed it a millimeter, landed just between green and fringe, and had about a 70-100 foot recovery shot from deep in the right hand bowl short of the green as my reward. 

For a second, I thought about being pissed...and then I just laughed at the wonderful exactitude required by the hole with not much more than shortly cut grass as the enemy.

[Tim Bert]

Mike C:

Maybe my heart wasn't in the description of difficulty because I striped a perfect one that got a nice roll deep on the high side in the morning.  After hitting #2 green, two-putting for par, and following it up with this effort on the tee, this visitor was feeling rather invulnerable.  This was before the holes yet to be discussed robbed me of my manhood and confidence.

To be fair, I'm now imagining my afternoon tee shot.  It wasn't a whole lot worse, but it did trickle too far left and gave me a nastier approach into the green.

This is definitely one of the best jumbo fairway with small target zone holes I've ever played.  I thought I mentioned something to that effect in my original post on the hole, thought I might not have emphasized small target zone enough.  Maybe I should have said miniscule?

[Mike_Cirba]

Tim,

It's one of those holes that until you've been there, you don't easily notice the slim waist between glory and gory.

This picture probably shows it best, if you look outwards towards  the line of the right-side greenside bunker, you'll note that the fairway turns into a sliver about where most decent length drives end up.



The picture claims that it's from the "tee shot landing area" and yes, it's very possible to layup back there, but most drives end up about 75 yards ahead, and it gets pretty skinny in that 120 yards from the hole range, which is where you want to be given the head-wind and the insane green.

[Tim Bert]

Mike - if you are driving it 300 into a head wind, then you have a different set of problems than me.   

I hit a really good drive for me and probably had somewhere in the vicinity of 150 remaining to the green.  The picture that you re-displayed is a pretty good view from where my ball ended up.  It's skinny where I was but not as sliver-like as the place where you big guys must be popping it!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tim,

At the time of the day I played 3, it was a medium, swirling wind, and my drive was maybe 275-280 with very firm conditions.  As a 10, it was certainly one of my better ones, but for better players (and longer ones) than me, that's both the attraction and the ultimate risk of the hole.

[Jeff Tang]

It's an interesting hole because the way it sets up it tempts you to hit it too far right on your tee shot to try and cut some distance off and then again because of the ridge in the middle of the green it tempts you to keep it right on your approach bringing that right swale into play.  When I played it the pin was front right as well.  Chipping from below the hole on the right is no easy shot because you risk leaving the ball on the top tier if you chip the ball too far which is what I did.  The course was playing really fast when I played it and keeping the ball from scurrying too far past the hole was tough to do.

[Patrick Kiser]

The green is indeed HUGE and I'm not sure we can tell if that's just because of the lay of the land.

However, could there be another reason for why this green is so big?

I'm just wondering if Mike wanted to give the blind shot a better chance at the green from down the left side of the fairway.



 

[ed_getka]

Tim,
    Love the thread. Kingsley is one of my favorite golf courses in the world. Interesting take on the nines. I think the front nine at Kingsley is one of the best nines in the world. #9 doesn't quite work, but I just love the variety of demands of the front nine.
    #3 is an excellent hole. I love the way the tee box ties in with #5 tee for starters. I love the way the hole sweeps steadily around to the right and as Tom D mentions it is difficult to pick the proper line off the tee. The tee shot is compounded in difficulty not only by having bunkering down the right, but a big drive played too safely out to the left can run through the fairway and down into a hollow, thus making the approach blind. The movement in the fairway ensures that most approaches are going to be more than just figuring out the yardage. The way the green is set on its axis with the diagonal ridge from 8 o'clock to 2 o'clock adds to the brilliance of the hole.
    The eagle I made on this hole is a good illustration of how cool this hole is. I drove down the right side and was just in the fairway. The pin was far right so I did NOT have a good angle into the hole. I knew there was a slope just to the left of the greenside bunker that would help my ball move right if I could skirt the bunker. Pix #5 and 6 that Tim posted illustrate what I am describing.  I didn't hit a great three iron but I did catch the slope, the ball moved a bit right, then up onto the diagonal ridge at which point it lost speed turned sharp right and rolled down into the hole. I never expected my ball to get that far right, but that is one of the brilliant things about KC is that there are features you can use to your advantage if you pay attention.

[Patrick Kiser]

Ed Getka lives!

Good to hear from you.  Hope all's well in NC. 

[Tim Bert]

Ed - If this thread can bring you out of the woodwork, then it is worth it in more than one way!

[Buck Wolter]

To me the enormous hollow short and right of the hole defines the hole -- at least for a shaky 13. That thing is a blackhole that swallows anything offline right and/or short and makes for a brutal recovery. A chip/pitch from a tight lie to a wild green that must be 10 feet above your head over two bunkers is no fun and all to common for me.

The yardage book shows the green to be 48 yards deep and it basically wraps around the hollow from left to right. Lots of room left and better long than short as it seems pretty straightforward from behind the green. The back right pin sets up some wild putts up and over a big spine that bisects the green. Great matchplay hole on a great matchplay course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Can anyone accurately describe the 3rd green?

I can't.

[Buck Wolter]

Mike-
Does this help -- it seems pretty accurate from what I remember.

[Jim Tang]

Agreed that the 3rd is a tremendous hole.  As people have stated, the hole tempts you to take an aggressive line down the right side, bringing those deep fairway bunkers into play.  I think that is a bad choice and you bring a big number into play with that line.  I actually took a left center line and then a way left line, and both times the approach was longer, but the pin was available from that side.  The stick was front left and I luckily landed my approach up on top of the fairway to the left and the ball trickled down to the hole location, leaving me maybe 12 feet.  However, the second round I tried the same exact thing and this time my ball got stuck up top, leaving me a very difficult putt from off the green.  That is one reason Kingsley is so great; the margin for error is very slim.

[Mike_DeVries]

Tim,
Thanks for starting this thread.

The 1st is one of my favorite openers, and admittedly I have a fond memory of playing it with Dan Lucas and Mike DeVries. I flew the central bunkers, got a huge bounce down the slope, hit my second to about three feet, and made eagle. I won't mention what happened after that...

I think Mike grumbled something about needing a new tee, but got his revenge shortly thereafter    I believe we were playing from the "Black" yardage, it certainly wasn't any longer than that.

Big hitter, the Lama!  Nice to remember that one again, Andy!

[Andy Troeger]

Mike,
That reminds me...

I have to wonder if anyone else has ever started 3-6-3-6-3 at Kingsley (and the 6 on #2 was of course adjusted).

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Mike_DeVries]

Ooh, a Kingsley picture thread, is this Christmas?!?!

Tim, you're the man.  Great pictures.  I can't wait to hear more and more from lots of other players.

As far as that left side of the fairway... Im not a big fan.  I was hitting some pretty powerful draws the two rounds I had.  Just wanted to start it on the far right side of the huge fairway and let it go where it goes.  From the back tees, I cleared the bunkers, barely.  The left side trees blocked any look at the green (not that I was going for it anyway, 260 or so out).  Had to hook a 7 iron hard to get back into the fairway.  Next trip around, we played a set up, cleared the bunker again and ended up only a few yards past where I was earlier.  Still had to lay up even more with a PW, then a 4 iron that didnt get up the hill.  IMO, left isnt the way to go unless you short of the bunkers, then the trees are a little out of the way.  Next time out, the right side of the fw is where I'll really want to be.


Cant wait to talk about #2...

Jon,
If you were hitting a huge draw/hook, then maybe driver wasn't what you should have hit?  The fairway and bunkers in total for the first landing area is 110 yards wide -- it gets aggressively narrower the longer you hit it, but with the firm conditioning and slot off the right hill, it offers the really big hitter a great opportunity to get it close enough to hit the green in two.  The left side is a very good options for shorter hitters, particularly those who are playing off the forward tees, as it stays below the wind more and can help those who slice into the hill.  The trees at the end actually improve the risk/reward option of the left side by demanding a harder second shot (and subsequently longer third) for someone who overcooks their drive and ends up left and close to the trees.  I definitely think the right side is the preferred line, but the left is a viable option for many reasons.
Best,
Mike