Will the work of a female GCA be critiqued on this web site or elsewhere?

[Carl Rogers]

A little provocative for sure ...
When will there be a new Annika Sorenstam course? 
Will she be given a pass because she is a nice person?

[Jeff_Brauer]

There are already female designed courses out there.  Jan Stevenson got some good reviews for hers, if I recall.  ASGCA has Alice Dye, Vicki Martz (Palmer) Jan Belgan (Fazio) that have all put out good work.

Like you, I wonder if the Sarah Palin factor (or Hillary Clinton Factor) where most will go easy on females, at least for a while, will kick in.  BTW, who says Annika is a nice person?

[Tom_Doak]

I hope they will be held to the same standard as everyone else.  (Annika, for one, is used to that.)

I have yet to see a course by either Vicki Martz or Cynthia Dye or Line Mortensen (from Denmark) or Annika, so I can safely say "no comment" at the moment.  Based on her visits to The Renaissance Club during construction, I would gladly wager on Line Mortensen as being a better designer than Annika.

[John Moore II]

I too, hope they will be held to the same standard. Just call a spade a spade. If they design a course that stinks, say it stinks. Its no big deal. Same as in life. I have nothing against telling someone that something they said or did is stupid, male or female.

[Carl Rogers]

Let me ask a second question on this thread.

Has the work of any female GCA's shown a special or unique insight of the game from the forward tees or the golfer that can only hit it 170 yards?

I know it is hard to make a hole all things to all people.

[Charlie Goerges]

Hell, I'd just like to see a course designed by a woman within a thousand miles of me (perhaps there is and I don't know it). But honestly, for a woman to even get a chance to do so, she'd likely need to be an over-achiever of the highest degree. Such is always the case for those who break the glass ceiling.

[Ian Andrew]

I remember the first time I did my lampooning of the ASGCA in one of my presentations - my dilemma was whether to include Jan or not - since at the time I didn't know her.

I did - and afterwards when we sat together at dinner - she came in a replica of the outfit I had photoshopped. She has a great sense of humour. I had confessed being leary of offending her - and she replied that it was importnat that she, Alica and Vicky are included in the good and the not so good. We went on to talk a it about her experiences in the profession - I came away very impressed with Jan. I don't know her work - but from meeting here she's not afraid of a little criticism of her designs.

After all she's faced far worse than criticism.

[John Mayhugh]

There is a course in Kentucky designed by a female architect.  Jody Kinney is based in Ohio (Dublin I think) and designed Lafayette Golf Course.  It's a "resort" course that is usually ranked in the top 10 in the state by Golf Digest. 

I think the ranking is a little high.  The course is scenic but a little too penal in spots.  Maybe a Doak 5. 

I don't think a female architect's work should be judged any differently.

[Tom Naccarato]

There are already female designed courses out there.  Jan Stevenson got some good reviews for hers, if I recall.  ASGCA has Alice Dye, Vicki Martz (Palmer) Jan Belgan (Fazio) that have all put out good work.

Like you, I wonder if the Sarah Palin factor (or Hillary Clinton Factor) where most will go easy on females, at least for a while, will kick in.  BTW, who says Annika is a nice person?

Please define 'good work.'

Is Mountain View at La Quinta is considered 'good work?'

[Jeff_Brauer]

There are already female designed courses out there.  Jan Stevenson got some good reviews for hers, if I recall.  ASGCA has Alice Dye, Vicki Martz (Palmer) Jan Belgan (Fazio) that have all put out good work.

Like you, I wonder if the Sarah Palin factor (or Hillary Clinton Factor) where most will go easy on females, at least for a while, will kick in.  BTW, who says Annika is a nice person?

Please define 'good work.'

Is Mountain View at La Quinta is considered 'good work?'

Anyone else smell bait?

[Carl Rogers]

This is the first thread I originated.

I am not surprised that this subject is kind of blank page.

But with Ms. Sorenstam on the design scene with I assume a lot of financial backing (even in this day and time), she will immediately go to the head of a very short line.  

Her web site is short on timeline specifics, but does list 4 or 5 courses under way mostly overseas.

Why hasn't she and LPGA started partnering for distinctly women's courses in the states?

Does Oprah Winfrey care or know anything about golf?

[John Kavanaugh]

I really love the Lopez course at The Villages.  When my wife and I visited they took this video of us telling about our great experience.  Of course my wife hogged the camera but that's me playing paddle ball with her near the end.  http://www.thevillages.com/comevisit/lpp.asp

[Jeff_Brauer]

Carl,

In the lat 70's in Sweetwater, TX they tried to build an LPGA home course, marketed as aimed at women. It failed and I think developers are still leery of  building a course that will be marketed to 5% of the golf market, when experience shows that - despite the reality of a top woman playing about like an average man distance wise - men may not show up to fill the tee sheets.

[Charlie Goerges]

John, you look nothing like Beelzebub.

[Carl Rogers]

Jeff,

Thanks for the info.

Perhaps I mistakenly assumed that Annika was a 'game changer'.

[Billsteele]

To follow up on what John Mayhugh said, Jody Kinney has done several courses in Ohio. Her work is solid, if not spectacular. To my knowledge, her Ohio courses are: Big Beaver Creek in Piketon (a spectacular site with an awkward routing and some goofy holes, probably her worst effort), a revamping of the Blacklick Woods Championship course in Reynoldsburg (a re-do of a pretty good Jack Kidwell design, she added some bunkering and rebuilt the greens), Buck Ridge in Marysville (a pleasant, well routed and very walkable inexpensive public golf course), Rattlesnake Ridge (a private club in Sunbury that is fairly well done but hampered by massive electrical towers running through the course which give off an audible and disconcerting crackle) and National Golf Links (an inexpensive public golf course near Springfield visible from Interstate 70...this is a fun and well done golf course that, to me, is a hidden gem of Ohio publics). I see no reason why a female architect can't be critiqued like anyone else. As to the personality issue, Art Hills is one of the nicest people on the planet and he gets skewered here. I'm sure that Annika can receive and accept thoughtful criticism.

[Anthony Gray]

   


   Are there any women on this site?

    Anthony

[Jeff_Brauer]

  


   Are there any women on this site?

    Anthony

I dunno...some of us fight like little girls, though!

[Mark Smolens]

"Has the work of any female GCA's shown a special or unique insight of the game from the forward tees or the golfer that can only hit it 170 yards?"

Based on things that I've read, Mrs. Dye has had a great deal of input into many of her husband's designs with respect to the placement of forward tees for golfers (whether male or female) who cannot drive the ball the same distances as the low handicappers of the world.  In my experience, the tee placements at TPC Sawgrass do a marvelous job of allowing high handicap players to get around a course that would be very difficult for them from the tees further back. . .

[Lou_Duran]

Come'n Jeff, tells us your story about Pete and Alice.

[Bob_Huntley]

I would have thought that Marion Hollins would be remembered here..

Bob

[Lester George]

Ian,

I too have spent time with Jan Beljan and admire her toughness.  She is not afraid of anything that I know of and has a long history of golf in her family.  I have not played any of her courses but my impression is that they must be solid because she is solid. 

Lester

[Rob_Waldron]

Lisa Maki designed Stoneleigh CC in Purcellville, VA as well as Hampshire Greens in Silver Spring, MD. Both are terrible. Stoneleigh could win a "Worst Golf Course on a Great Piece of Land" Award. At Hampshire Greens I understand Montgomery County can be credited with such innovative design requirements as bunkers used for course drainage. Fortunately I have never heard of another Lisa Maki design since.

[Lester George]

Rob,

I have heard similar criticism of Stoneleigh.  I wonder how she got that job and where she is now.  You have certainly answered the premise of the thread.

Lester

[KBanks]

I would have thought that Marion Hollins would be remembered here..

Bob

And Molly Gourlay.

Ken