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Rich Goodale

Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 10:40:33 AM »
No.

Anthony Gray

Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 10:45:59 AM »
I do think the pinch point in the green should be mowed out wider.  It's very common to play to the right side, only to have the collar/rough at the pinch point block the proper angle, so you can't get your next shot within six feet of the hole.  I don't think that's how it was intended to play.


  I agree with this strongly. The collar eliminates a putting option at times even when you are on the green. If you are off the green you almost are forced to flop it.

     Anthony


Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 11:40:08 AM »
Anthony,

If you cannot putt it, wedge it.

I came across this problem at Riviera's 6th hole when playing there. If a putt was not possible I pulled out the wedge. Mr. Hathaway remonstrated with me about damage to the green and I reminded him I was playing golf not lawn care.

When I see a sign calling for the use of putters only on a green, I see an architectural problem. If the architect want a horse-shoe shaped green he knows, or should know, that a few divots may well be taken on the hole.

Bob

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 12:19:39 PM »
I started having my doubts about the 17th when I saw Tiger and others in the 2000 US Open hit it into the front bunker intentionally when there was a left side pin.

Commentators at the time noted that players couldn't hold the green and preferred a routine recovery from the front bunker to whatever fate might be in store behind the green.

Not what comes to mind when I think of a great par 3.

As for the skinny neck. I too would guess that it was designed to be wider. Perhaps Hotelling's book has some old pictures?  It would be a better hole if there were a realistic chance of working a shot right to left to reach the back half of the green.

Bob

 

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 12:44:00 PM »
I sat in the stands for much of the final round of the 1990 (or was it 92) Open with the crazy wind they had that day.  It was in their face with a far left hole.  Many players did hit it into the bunker but I doubt that it was intentional.  They just couldn't get there in the wind with 3 woods.  Davis Love was the only player I saw hit an iron.  Some other hit far right to the wide open apron and chipped up and made 3.  Most players that day were making 4.  It was good spectating.  Bob Crosby, it is not unusual for players to hit into bunkers in a U.S. Open because the greens are so silly firm.  The 16th at Olympic comes to mind.  Snead claims he aimed for the front of the bunker, if he hit the green it would be in the front part and have a chance to hold, if he was in the bunker he was confident of getting up and down.
Two things.  I bet the pinched part in the middle was wider at one time.  If that is the case, it is a shame the owners don't address it.  Secondly, with the flag on the left then why not demand a chip on occasion.  Like life, it doesn't have to be fair.
Finally, I was amazed how few players that day went left of the green.  They had remarkable control considering the wind.  I left before Kite got there, but didn't he get up and down from the bunker?

It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 12:57:45 PM »
the word is "goofy" if you don't like the hole

the word is "quirky" if you like the hole ;)
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 12:59:22 PM »
Lynn - Kite made 4, but Tiger made 3 in 2000. :)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 01:02:11 PM »
I think its a good green complex and certainly interesting.

IMO though, I think it would work a lot better as a shorter par 3.  Its like having a green like #10 at Riveria on a long par 4.  Let the players attack it with mid to short irons instead of 3-5 irons.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 01:10:57 PM by Kalen Braley »

Anthony Gray

Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2008, 01:09:57 PM »
Anthony,

If you cannot putt it, wedge it.

I came across this problem at Riviera's 6th hole when playing there. If a putt was not possible I pulled out the wedge. Mr. Hathaway remonstrated with me about damage to the green and I reminded him I was playing golf not lawn care.

When I see a sign calling for the use of putters only on a green, I see an architectural problem. If the architect want a horse-shoe shaped green he knows, or should know, that a few divots may well be taken on the hole.

Bob

   Bob,
     
    Once I strongly agree. I wonder what the architects think about a ball being on the green with no putting option.

                           Anthony

 

Anthony Gray

Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 01:13:51 PM »
the word is "goofy" if you don't like the hole

the word is "quirky" if you like the hole ;)

  Pat,

 That is an excellent observation. Where was this on the other thread?


                             Anthony


PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 17th @ Pebble Beach - Is it goofy golf?
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 01:17:16 PM »
the word is "goofy" if you don't like the hole

the word is "quirky" if you like the hole ;)

  Pat,

 That is an excellent observation. Where was this on the other thread?


                             Anthony




I have started my winter hibernating in Chicago and only awake once in awhile to throw out hopefully good obeservations ;)
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

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