Styles and Van Kleek's best courses?

[Lester George]

The work we did at Starmount Forest was completed over the top of a George Cobb renovation in around 1970.  I have Cobbs Master Plan.  The good thing about Cobbs plan is that it is overlaid on the Stiles and Van Kleek original course (or at least what was left) and provides great insight into the original design intent.

Cobb did not change the routing (as far as I can tell) and nor did I.  Very solid routing.  When I got there, the club wanted something "new".  I still used the original plan by Stiles and Van Kleek to temper my decisions on placement of hazards. 

Sam Snead won four of his eight GGO's at Starmount but sometime in his career was very critical of the course which made the owner so furious Snead was invited to never come back.  When I finished my renovation, the club and Snead reconnected and Sam came down for dinner one night.  I was told he liked what he saw of my work and he was very gracious while there.  Little did I know at the time that I would be hired years later to restore the Old White where Snead spent most of his life as the professional.

Lester

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Norwood Hills in St Louis is a 36 hole Stile's complex here I grew up playing. It's West course hosted the 1948 PGA Championship won by Ben Hogan.

This is from Superintendent magazine:

"With most of his work centered in New England, it is a mystery how Stiles landed a job in St. Louis. In 1929, he would employ a nationwide clipping service to locate clubs seeking architects, but in 1921 there must have been a personal connection that led him to Norwood Hills in the gateway to the West.

Originally named North Hills Country Club, the 45-hole complex was one of the finest facilities in the Midwest, and 86 years later remains one of the architect’s greatest achievements. The nine-hole short course for ladies and beginners has been eliminated, but the 36 holes that remain are mostly original and have been treated with respect throughout their architectural life, reflecting an authenticity and adherence to Stiles’ design principles that has been lost at many of his other courses."

According to the article, Norwood was built before Van Kleek became his partner however

[Ed Homsey]

Cannot imagine a more authoritative piece on Wayne Stiles, including his work with Van Kleek, than the book, "The Life and Work of Wayne Stiles" by Bob Labbance and Kevin Mendik.  A beautiful book with detailed information about Stiles' golf courses, including terrific images.  I notice that the Wayne Stiles Society's website, administered by Kevin Mendik is down, currently.  I believe that Kevin would be the primary source for obtaining the book.

[john_stiles]

This is another recommendation for  "The Life and Work of Wayne Stiles" by Bob Labbance and Kevin Mendik. 

Ditto the remarks by Ed, above.

Just wanted to add that the book has 5 pages about Norwood.

Obviously there are numerous references to Van Kleek,  plus 4 pages just about Van Kleek.

[Kevin Mendik]

Folks, please note that the Stiles (not Styles!) website is up and running at www.waynestilessociety.org no longer at .com. I undertook a major upgrade last December and am currently catching up on what has come my way in recent months. Anyone wishing to contact me regarding new information or simply with questions about what is out there, feel free to do so through the contact page on the website.
Prouts Neck is indeed a gem.
Plenty of great public Stiles courses in the Boston area; I highly recommend South Shore in Hingham and Larry Gannon in Lynn.
I have been working with the good folks at Norwood Hills in St. Louis to develop a more active Society, in the manner of Walter Travis, AW Tillinghast and Donald Ross. The inaugural event will be held in September 2015 at Norwood Hills, followed in 2016 at Nashua CC in New Hampshire to coincide with their centennial. There will of course, be a hickory component.
As for my personal favorites, I enjoy most the course I am playing on.

[Rees Milikin]

Folks, please note that the Stiles (not Styles!) website is up and running at www.waynestilessociety.org no longer at .com. I undertook a major upgrade last December and am currently catching up on what has come my way in recent months. Anyone wishing to contact me regarding new information or simply with questions about what is out there, feel free to do so through the contact page on the website.
Prouts Neck is indeed a gem.
Plenty of great public Stiles courses in the Boston area; I highly recommend South Shore in Hingham and Larry Gannon in Lynn.
I have been working with the good folks at Norwood Hills in St. Louis to develop a more active Society, in the manner of Walter Travis, AW Tillinghast and Donald Ross. The inaugural event will be held in September 2015 at Norwood Hills, followed in 2016 at Nashua CC in New Hampshire to coincide with their centennial. There will of course, be a hickory component.
As for my personal favorites, I enjoy most the course I am playing on.

Kevin, glad you are getting this going again.  I think both Scott Edwards (from the Florida Historic Golf Trail) and I can give you some good information and images in the near future.

[BCowan]

I swung by Lekarica today and happened to run into the owner.  He is looking to sell and whoever ends up buying it is going to get is for basically nothing (I was shocked at the price that he is willing to unload the course).  I don't have high hopes that it will remain a golf course, but who knows, maybe someone that loves old golf courses will buy it and turn it around.

Rees,

   any news on Lekarica?

[RDecker]

I grew up on Styles & Van Kleek at Cranwell in Lenox, MA.  It was an unloved gem in the possession of the Jesuits who had run the then defunct Boy's prep school.  As an unirrigated under funded Public access course it was awesome.  Great fun and always challenging with some awesome greens, especially the back 9.  It was purchased in late 80's and developers started putting up condos and sliced and diced some of the very best Holes.  It is now a shell of it's former self, but dare I say in 1985 would have been a superior layout to Taconic.  It's a real shame no one will ever get to enjoy it the way S&VK intended it to be.

[Tim Martin]

I grew up on Styles & Van Kleek at Cranwell in Lenox, MA.  It was an unloved gem in the possession of the Jesuits who had run the then defunct Boy's prep school.  As an unirrigated under funded Public access course it was awesome.  Great fun and always challenging with some awesome greens, especially the back 9.  It was purchased in late 80's and developers started putting up condos and sliced and diced some of the very best Holes.  It is now a shell of it's former self, but dare I say in 1985 would have been a superior layout to Taconic.  It's a real shame no one will ever get to enjoy it the way S&VK intended it to be.

Cranwell has very questionable routing decisions in its current form. Some shoved in holes and long green to tee walks make Cranwell pretty ho hum and is not in the same discussion as Taconic.

[Rob Collins]

Ran,
If you're around Boston, you should check out Nehoiden, which is in Wellesley - it has some really cool features including a semi blind punchbowl-ish par 3.

I know it's not exactly like saying "hey, I can get you on Pine Valley, just let me know..." but I can arrange it if you want to go play it...

[Ken Fry]

I grew up on Styles & Van Kleek at Cranwell in Lenox, MA.  It was an unloved gem in the possession of the Jesuits who had run the then defunct Boy's prep school.  As an unirrigated under funded Public access course it was awesome.  Great fun and always challenging with some awesome greens, especially the back 9.  It was purchased in late 80's and developers started putting up condos and sliced and diced some of the very best Holes.  It is now a shell of it's former self, but dare I say in 1985 would have been a superior layout to Taconic.  It's a real shame no one will ever get to enjoy it the way S&VK intended it to be.

I also grew up around the area and played Cranwell often in the late '70's and '80's.  There was a thread on Cranwell a few years ago and Tom O'Rourke posted the following:


I was a student there when it was a high school, class of 1969. When I arrived there in 1965 it was a nine hole course. The first 5 holes and the last 4 holes were the course. In 1966 the other nine holes were added. That may be the disjoint. The fifth was a par 5 and is now a par 4 as homes were added near the tee. I see one of the par 4s on the back is now a par 3 and the par is now 69. I am not sure if those extra holes were once there, abandoned and redone, or if Stiles had no part of them and they were added  by someone, but the course has been altered too much over the years to be an original.

Pretty interesting stuff as I thought the entire course was Stiles.  This would explain the disjointed routing on the back nine.


Ken

[RDecker]

Cranwell had been sliced up to allow for Townhouses to be built, the 70's era 18 hole routing, though it did include one long walk/ride from the 9th green to 10th tee was very solid.  The greens were extremely challenging at that era's greenspeeds and a solid score on that track was an accomplishment.  I doubt many here would have had the privilege.

[RDecker]

Holes that were not in use in 60's were abandoned to cut cost, layout was in existence from the 20's I believe.

[Ken Fry]

Holes that were not in use in 60's were abandoned to cut cost, layout was in existence from the 20's I believe.

If that is true, where did the abandon 9 holes exist?  Were the 1920 holes resurrected into the later ones (using the same playing corridors)?

9 to 10 was an extremely long walk but the holes were so isolated it was an enjoyable stroll.  I remember the green speeds, especially when trying to putt the 15th green to a back pin location.  Think Payne Stewart at Olympic.

Ken

[Ian Andrew]

For what its worth, I work with Thorny Lea...
They will undergoing a massive tree removal program starting this winter.
If weather co-operates, the results should be pretty amazing.

[Ken Fry]

In Mendik and Labbance's book "The Life and Work of Wayne Stiles," the description of Cranwell, first named Berkshires Hunt & CC then Wyndhurst Club then Cranwell Prep School Course, mentions the first three holes are not Stiles, but the rest of the course is.  Holes 9-14, which circle Blantyre Castle property, are part of the original routing and were abandon but then rediscovered by prep school students and one of the Jesuit teachers.

My problem is in the book, there's a scorecard from Wyndhurst Club showing a round between Wayne Stiles and Bruce Mathews.  No date is given and I've never been able to match a routing between the scorecard, historical aerials (dating back to 1959) and what the course was like when I played in the early 1980's.  If the current routing of holes 9-14 are original, I'm finding no historical flow to match up with.  Because the holes are so isolated, they couldn't be used "out of order."  Holes 1-3 are part of the aerials dating from 1959 which could support the addition after the property became a prep school.

Stiles and Mathews played a course measuring 6430 yards and a par of 71.  There has been much work done around the main building proving at least one green was lost from the historical aerials.  Also, hole 11 was turned from a nice 400+ yard par 4 to a goofy 181 yard par 3 due to real estate changes.  The current course plays at 5991 yards par 69.  Does anyone else know changes made to the course over the years explaining the loss in yardage?

Ken

[RDecker]

They installed irrigation at Cranwell in the 95' time frame, prior to that when the course baked out in summer it was tremendous fun and a real test of nerves.  At "old" green speeds (think 7-8 tops) the greens, especially on the back 9 (11,12,13, 15, 16) were treacherous and a blast.  Irrigating the course really changed the character of the place and that combined with the changes that were made to accommodate condominiums (11 from par 5 to 4, 13 with added drain swail, 14 tee moved up about 50 yards, 4 tee moved forward to render toothless par 5 now a 4) have taken away the fun IMHO.  Tree removal, condo removal and a commitment to firm and fast could really bring it back but it'll never happen.

[BCowan]

any news on Lekarica?

[Keith Phillips]

For what its worth, I work with Thorny Lea...
They will undergoing a massive tree removal program starting this winter.
If weather co-operates, the results should be pretty amazing.

Ian, curious if this work happened, if you can post any pics, and what your definition of 'massive tree removal' is?!

[RDecker]

Taconic is their most famous layout in the area but they are also responsible for the course at Cranwell Resort and Spa.  The old layout at Cranwell was wonderful but it has been sliced and diced in the name of condos and no longer measures up to the original.  In it's old form that lasted until about 1983 or so it was incredibly fun and challenging with a set of greens that were tough to put at 80's green speeds ( guessing around 7 or   but that course doesn't exist anymore.  Still worth a look especially when off season rates are in effect in the fall of the year, when foliage makes it very pretty.

[Tim Martin]

Anyone been to Woods Hole Golf Club which is credited to Stiles/Van Kleek?

[Brad Tufts]

Woods Hole has always fascinated from their course tour, although I have yet to play it.


Looks like a TON of ground movement like an Eastward Ho, etc.

[Mark McKeever]

Thorny Lea in Brockton MA has some pretty neat features.  They have done a bit of tinkering, but lots to still go see!