News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Rich Goodale

Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 06:12:33 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I love that we never agree on anything.
I'm not much of a player but folk in the UK, AND locals here in New England are often full of awe and praise for my Philly Mick flop shot. I'm rather embarrassed that I've had so much practice at the damned shot that I'm now quite adept with it... Ask me to hit a 75 yard bump and run under the wind, however, and I'm found wanting (I was at Elie several times). I could play that shot in my sleep as a kid... I guess we do as the Romans do.
I love the idea of the ground game, but when I play I want to to win, and around here it's a pretty low percentage option.

Lloyd

Wait till you get a 64 degree lob wedge like I did last summer.  You'll never hit a ground game shot again.... :'(

Rich

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 06:29:44 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I love that we never agree on anything.
I'm not much of a player but folk in the UK, AND locals here in New England are often full of awe and praise for my Philly Mick flop shot. I'm rather embarrassed that I've had so much practice at the damned shot that I'm now quite adept with it... Ask me to hit a 75 yard bump and run under the wind, however, and I'm found wanting (I was at Elie several times). I could play that shot in my sleep as a kid... I guess we do as the Romans do.
I love the idea of the ground game, but when I play I want to to win, and around here it's a pretty low percentage option.

Lloyd

Wait till you get a 64 degree lob wedge like I did last summer.  You'll never hit a ground game shot again.... :'(

Rich
Did that come with a free Cheater Line (tm) Marker set?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 06:32:16 AM »
Seeing as I don't play to win any more, I usually spend my round inventing ground game shots where I quite clearly shouldn't....

More often than not, the shot is followed by me cackling away to myself like some leftover witch from Halloween...

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 07:30:56 AM »
Of course the ground game isn't played here.

Everything about the game, from the design of equipment that is used to play the game, to the design of golf course, how they are grassed, etc. is all catered to the kind of game that Jack Nicholas played.

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 08:06:20 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I love that we never agree on anything.
I'm not much of a player but folk in the UK, AND locals here in New England are often full of awe and praise for my Philly Mick flop shot. I'm rather embarrassed that I've had so much practice at the damned shot that I'm now quite adept with it... Ask me to hit a 75 yard bump and run under the wind, however, and I'm found wanting (I was at Elie several times). I could play that shot in my sleep as a kid... I guess we do as the Romans do.
I love the idea of the ground game, but when I play I want to to win, and around here it's a pretty low percentage option.

Me getting one makes sense (BTW I tried a 62 - I prefer the 60). You getting one, living where you do, is plain perverse. But it doesn't surprise me...

Lloyd

Wait till you get a 64 degree lob wedge like I did last summer.  You'll never hit a ground game shot again.... :'(

Rich

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 08:37:39 AM »
One of the unmentioned consequences in the loss of GG is a reluctance to play in extreme conditions because the equip is not designed to play low traj shots. Good luck hitting a 64 degree in conditions over 30 mph. It has turned the majority of golfers into wussies.  The most satisfying shot I hit this year was on the first @ BN. It was into a 25-35 mph wind from out of position on the right edge of the fwy from 183 y. I knew I wouldn't be able to hit a cut off the canted lie so I hit it directly over the right side bunker that's well short of the green. The ball took off like a bullet with a low traj splitting the bunker. In what seemed like a week and a half later the ball reappeared rolling across the green headed towards the back left center pin. It stopped 5 ft from the hole. Now that's not a bump n run but it certainly wouldn't have been possible on a less inspired canvas or with an implement ill suited for the task. 
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Peter Pallotta

Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 09:00:34 AM »
Adam - nice picture you paint. You mention canted fairways - I was going to start a thread about that, i.e. whether it was my imagination that on  newer courses many architects seem to go out of their way (and move a lot of dirt) to ensure no or very little slope/cant on the fairways, even when that slope/cant is very evident in the surrounding countryside. If so, I don't know why that is -- canted fairways seem to be something everyone can enjoy and be tested by....including via a greater demand for the B&R. 

Generally though, I do think it's mostly a maintenance issue. I played Joe Hancock's NLE last year, and I was so lousy that the only shot I could hit with any success was the B&R -- but I remember that Joe's maintenance style made those possible.

Peter

Rich Goodale

Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 10:49:19 AM »
Mark

No, it does not have a cheater line, but it doesn't need one!  Just a nice full swing from 50 yards and it sits down by the pin as gently as one's Aunt Rhoda trying to get as close as possible to the pecan pie.

Lloyd

Yes, as you know, I am perverse.  However, in this case please blame Tom Paul, who let me hit his 64 degree killer club at Gulph Mills this summer--now there is a perverse man, if you've ever seen one.......

Rich

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2008, 11:06:41 AM »
Does anyone know who 'em are?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 11:18:25 AM »
I just know growing up that I played the local munis and the ground was hard. The greens were hard. You had to hit approaches with a lot of spin to prevent your ball from bounding off the back of the green. And most of the greens were tilted towards the approach, theoretically making it easier to stop your approach, and exacting a very real penalty if you went over and had to chip back down the slope. The clubs and balls back then made it more difficult to create that kind of spin, and so everyone I knew grew up playing the ground game by necessity, as we just couldn't dependably hit approaches that would stop on those greens.

Now I see the double-whammy  -  those same courses are now maintained in a softer state, especially the greens. That combined with the qualities of the newer equipment make stopping approaches on the greens MUCH easier. You see ball marks on the greens now, not so much back then.

I guess ultimately the question is, was more lost than gained? Most golfers would probably say that maintenance practices are better now, the courses are better now. Now that I CAN hit aerial approaches to those greens, I certainly do much more often then I used to.

Net gain? Net loss?

"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

TEPaul

Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 11:47:57 AM »
RE: Bump and Run. Not Here?


I should remind some, again, if you consider even two very old and very famous American courses, Merion East and Pine Valley, there are 7-8 holes on each that are simply not designed for a bump and run---no way at all and no how at all---I don't care how firm and fast they're playing---bump and run just ain't an option or possible on 7-8 of the holes on each.

Should that hurt their reputations for architectural excellent? Not in my opinion Of course not.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 11:50:04 AM by TEPaul »

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bump and Run - Not Here?
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2008, 10:25:50 PM »
I played Muirfield this spring....rain and 30+ winds. Used only my putter and driver the last 10 holes or so...missed an 5' eagle putt.  love it in the UK.....but it doesn't translate here. Except at BN and a handfull of others.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca