If they were alive today.....

[David Stamm]

If architects that have passed away were alive today, which of their courses would you guess they'd be the most pleased with? Which ones would they be the most disappointed with, in terms of their present day condition?

[Chip Gaskins]

Tillinghast would be very happy with SFGC

Ross would be happy about some parts of Pinehurst #2 but not the massive encroachment of bermuda everywhere.

Crump would be happy with most parts of Pine Valley but not the massive loss of sandy areas and encroachment of trees

Fownes has happily hopped back in his grave after seeing last years US Open at Oakmont

Macdonald would be happy with National Golf Links being it has changed very little.

MacKenzie would be very happy with Pasitempo and of course Cypress but would be like WTF happened here with Augusta

Strantz would be one happy cat with MPCC (which makes me smile)

[David Stamm]

I'll say Thomas would be most disappointed w/ Bel Air, with La Cumbre not far behind. Probably most pleased w/ Riviera, but wonder what happened w/ the bunkers.


Behr would probably be most disappointed w/ Montecito. Most pleased w/ Victoria.

[Ian_L]

What would MacKenzie think of Lahinch?

[Robert_Ball]

Since I was at his grave today (accompanied by The Emporer) I guess it's appropriate that I point out what Billy Bell would think of his courses today...

Annandale - He'd be somewhat pleased with the recent restoration of the course where he got his start after moving to the west coast

Brookside - I think he'd be disappointed in this course's redesign of his bunkers.

Soule Park - He'd wonder what HIS bunkers are doing on his son's course.

And he would certainly like his bunkers at SFGC.

[Brian_Ewen]

I think Dr. MacKenzie would be having a good laugh at the Hazlehead plans , along with with tight Aberdonian jokes no doubt .

[TEPaul]

David Stamm:

Actually, Max Behr is alive and well today although he now writes under the name of Geoff Shackelford.

[Jon Spaulding]

I'll say Thomas would be most disappointed w/ Bel Air, with La Cumbre not far behind. Probably most pleased w/ Riviera, but wonder what happened w/ the bunkers.


Behr would probably be most disappointed w/ Montecito. Most pleased w/ Victoria.

Wouldn't Max be most disappointed with Lakeside or those hotshot water holes @ RSF?

I think GCTJ would drop dead again if he saw Griffith Park.

[David Stamm]

I'll say Thomas would be most disappointed w/ Bel Air, with La Cumbre not far behind. Probably most pleased w/ Riviera, but wonder what happened w/ the bunkers.


Behr would probably be most disappointed w/ Montecito. Most pleased w/ Victoria.

Wouldn't Max be most disappointed with Lakeside or those hotshot water holes @ RSF?

I think GCTJ would drop dead again if he saw Griffith Park.

I considered those for Max, but a highway cutting through the property tipped the scales in Montecito's favor in my book. Really, it's six of one, half a dozden of the other. I think his head would explode if he saw what has happened to his courses overall. I agree w/ Griffith Park for GT, but it started as a muni and I'm pretty sure that it's decline would not have surprised him as much as what was done at Bel Air, La Cumbre and Ojai.

Another for MacKenzie in terms of disappointment would be Sharp Park, while I think he would be pleased with the work Kyle has done at Cal Club.

[Kalen Braley]

David,

I wondered about Sharpe Park too.  Would he be bummed, or more thinking, "damn I was hoping a storm like that wouldnt' happen and wipe out those seaside holes"

No doubt he'd be disappointed in that they pretty much gave up on the course and never even tried to bring it back to respectability.

On a side note, I'm sure Fownes would be grinning ear to ear to see the state Oakmont is in, especially if they told him how the membership got it right by deforesting it.

[TEPaul]

David Stamm:

Listen, you know me and I think you realize it would be hard to find a greater fan of Max Behr and all he said and wrote and proposed than me.

But don't you think it's a lot ironic that his seminal ideas on golf architecture that were loosely contained in what he referred to and even advertized as "Permanent Architecture" (basically make it look really natural and golfers will not think it's artifical and criticize it and want to change it AND learn the details of the forces of Nature (wind and water) and build golf architecture FORMATIONS accordingly to withstand its destructive forces) have been so changed by things like floods as well as so changed by those members who belong to the courses he designed?

To me, anyway, that really is the supreme irony. I think if Max could wake up today and see what's going on out there with his courses and his ideas he would be really pissed for a lot of reasons!

Or maybe he would even think to retitle his overall thesis to read: "Permanent Architecture for everywhere other than this fragile California environment and everyone other than all these California  Yahoos out here who administer it."

[mark chalfant]

Walter Travis

Happy:

CC of Troy
CC of Scranton
Onandaga, NY

Unhappy

Round Hill
Westchester Country Club,   both courses

[Patrick Boyd]

I think MacDonald and Raynor would be pretty honked about Lido...

[John Moore II]

I think Ross would be disappointed with the narrowing of the fairways are Pinehurst #2 and with how Mid Pines has become largely obsolete for the better player. But I feel that he would greatly like the renovation that was done at Pine Needles and like the course overall.